Urgent Care :: Nesting

[BRANBRAN]

Hello,
I am pretty frantic here, but I wil try to answer the basic questions before going into my long spill.
She is about 10 inches in length. I have had her and my male for about 3 years now. At the moment we have her in a 75 gallon tank, but planning to upgrade soon. She has a great filter in the tank, along with a basking area, UVA and UVB lighting and a water heater and the temperature of the water is monitored closely. She has never laid eggs before and I did feel some eggs while I was checking her out.

I had read that the female would not mate with the male unless she had somewhere to lay the eggs. The male has been doing the mating ritual for a while now and we have never seen anything happen until about a month ago when we caught them mating. The other day,we noticed that she was acting frantic and trying to find a way out. I researched this site and others on building a nesting area for her and that is what we did. I purchased a 50 gallon rubbermaid tub for her along with a 15 gallon tub that we filled with a 50/50 mix of sand and organic composte like the website suggested. The smaller "nesting" tub is placed inside of the 50 gallon tub. We put water in the bigger tub and built a ramp out of plexi glass and hinges with a special "carpet" for her to grasp onto the ramp with. This setup has a filter, water heater, UVA and UVB light and thermometer to check the temperature of the water. We do have the basking light over the nesting area and I am not quite sure if that is where it belongs.

We did this setup because we already had most of the stuff and thought that we might need to seperate the male and the female. When we first put her in the new setup, she climbed into the nesting area and then she got out and swam around a few times. Now for the past 24 hours she has hardly moved from one spot and will not eat, or go to the nesting area to bask or anything. I did see her eat a small piece of wood that came from the nesting mixture but when I tried to give her some food she just swam away from it.

I had read that sometimes you need to keep her in the original tank and just put her in the nesting area for a couple hours each day so that she will have a chance to lay eggs. We are considering trying this. We did put her back in the original tank to see if maybe she would eat something or be happier, but she is just frantically swimming around.

We really did not know what we were getting into when we got these turtles. We sure did not know that they were of the opposite sex when we got them. We thought that they were just babies when we got them and then that we would have atleast 4-5 years before they sexually matured anyway. Yes, I am way over my head with this, but I still believe that they are better off with us then where they were. We will probably have to look into putting atleast one up for adoption because we can not provide the proper care for babies constantly. I just love them so much and want the best for my sweet turtles. Sorry to go on and on but I thought I would go ahead and give some background on how we got where we are now.

Please forgive me if I did not post this correctly or if I failed to use the proper posting ettiquette. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

BRANBRAN

[steve]

Hello!
Females can lay eggs, with or without a male and regardless if there is a nesting area present. There are several factors that could complicate the process. They can be very picky about their basking area, so it may be that you need to make or find a different one. What is the temperature of nesting area? You might want to consider putting her back into the main tank and take her out when so is showing signs again.

You should also consider destroying the eggs, and she should lay plenty more in the future.

[BRANBRAN]

I have heard so many bad things about not having a nesting area, and so that is why we were really trying to give her access to the water and nesting area at the same time. I will take the male and put him in this new set up(minus the nesting area) and put the female back in the main tank. We had her in the main tank for a little while last night but she was so frantic and the male kept bugging her, so we put her back in the new set up and she just hid and scratched on the bottom of the rubbermaid container but never went into the nesting area. I guess I will also start taking her out of the main tank and putting her in the nesting area a few hours a day, like the article said. I just feel bad that she would not have any water for a few hours each day. Do you think this would be ok? I am sorry that it took me so long to reply but I am at work and so therefore I am unable to tell you for sure the temp of the basking/nesting area. Thank you for your time.\
BRANBRAN

[steve]

I think that it's important to have a nesting area, but the 15 gallon tub may not be large enough. Again, some can be picky about where they choose to lay eggs. Do you hae access to a backyard?

She'll be fine without water for a few hours.

[BRANBRAN]

Once again, sorry about how long it took me to respond. No we live in an townhouse,there is some lawn but not much. We had considered emptying the 50gallon container and making that all nesting soil and putting her in that a few hours a day. The only problem with that is that we need to keep the male away from her because he was driving her crazy last night. We just do not have a big enough tank to put him in yet, nor can I really afford another $1,300.00 set up at the moment to keep them seperate for good. This is why I will have to find a way to put one up for adoption. I feel like such a bad parent for not being able to provide as much care as they need. When I came home, I noticed that she had been in the nesting/basking area because there was soil everywhere, including so much in the water that I can't even see her. I can not tell that there are any eggs and I want to pick her up and feel of her but she is very cranky at the moment and I can't see her through the water. I really do not want to get bit so I will wait until my husband gets home and let him do it(ha ha). I believe that the first thing I will do is try to get her in the main tank, mainly because the water in the new set up is so dirty. I may then clean out the 50 gallon tub and put the male in that. The 15 gallon does seem small for a nesting area, it is about 18"x12" but she can turn around and walk a little bit. What size do you think would be best? Thanks again,

[marisa]

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Nestsites.htm for info on nesting sites. Is what you're using deep enough for her to dig a nest?

[BRANBRAN]

That is the site that I used to build the set up we have now. It is a great article and really the only one that I could find. The 15 gallon tub is plenty deep enough (almost full), we have it that full so the she could walk into it instead of falling in. I know that this may be a natural thing to some but it seems urgent to me. I just wish she could tell me what she wanted and then life would be so much easier. I am so afraid that she will retain her eggs and get an infection or something. I am not sure how long I should try all this stuff before taking her to the vet. To be honest, I am not quite sure about the herp vet either. We will be putting her back in the main tank and putting the male into the 50 gallon tub and see how she acts with that. If she is still frantic in the main tank even with the male not being there then I will probably just start crying or have a nervous breakdown(just kidding). This is probably why I am 30 years old and still do not have children. I worry about everything. Thank you so much for all the advice and any more that you have will be greatly appreciated.

[marisa]

It may be hard to do, but it would really be good if you took a deep breath and calmed down--it sounds like you're doing a lot. You followed the basics for creating a nesting area. The nesting area should be warmed, and you're doing that. You seemed worried that she's not eating, and this is not unusual with gravid females. I don't remember reading how long she's been acting frantic, but if it's been a while (a few, several days?), it's possible that she's eggbound and can't lay them without some help. Can you dig in the dirt and see if she did lay any? If, despite all your efforts she continues to show signs of wanting to lay but doesn't/can't, a herp vet would be the best option. She would be examined, and would most likely receive a shot of oxytocin, which would help her expel the eggs. Good luck. An update on her progress would be appreciated.

[BRANBRAN]

Well, I looked and there are no eggs in the nesting area. I felt of her and she seems full of eggs. We just put her back in the main tank with the male removed and she is ok. She is swimming around alot, but not as frantically. She never swam in the 50 gallon tub, she just walked around the bottom, so I wonder where she is more content. I guess we are going to keep her in the main tank and for the next day or two we will let her into the nesting area for a few hours and see what happens. We will call the vet and see what they say and if nothing happens then I will take her in by Thursday at the latest. That will be about 5 days since we noticed that she was pregnant and acting so frantically. I will definately keep posting and letting everybody know how she is doing. By the way her name is Speedy and the male is LeLe. If you are reading this, then please keep your fingers crossed that all goes well.
Thanks,
Brandi

[SpotsMama]

We're all pulling for you and Speedy.

[Muirner]

Crossing my fingers for both of you. I read somewhere (and dont take me word for word for this) that, when they show signs of trying to get out of the tank, then that is the time to show them to the nesting area.

[Pam]

I can appreciate what you are going through with your female turtle. We have both males and females - two adult females who have both laid eggs. It is very common for them before laying eggs to not eat for awhile. This is probably why she is not eating. They can be very particular about a nest area however. We tried filling a 50 gallon container as well with soil and they just did not want to use it. I had to let our females outside even in 50 some degree weather to lay eggs - and it was raining as well - as they would not lay them elsewhere. Then they can be very slow at it - taking hours. I guess turtles can teach you patience as they are not in a hurry as we are. It sounds like you are doing a great job at trying to provide an area for her. The fact that she was in the soil and dug a bit is a good sign. She may just need longer in it. Keep us posted.

[marisa]

BRANBRAN, sorry, I reread my post to you yesterday, and in my haste, it should have said that it's not UNUSUAL for gravid females not to have an appetite. And as Pam said, it can take a good while. Wild females come to the lawn to nest every summer, and it takes them hours from start to finish. They often will start to dig and then change their minds about the spot and move on to try another. Good luck, especially if you do decide on a vet.

[BRANBRAN]

Marisa- thats what we thought you meant, but thanks for making sure.

My husband has had Speedy outside for about 2 hours now and he said that she walked around for about an hour and then found one spot, turned around in circles a few times and then just stopped and she has been in that place since. No actual digging. That has been about an hour and she hasn't moved, so we don't know if she is just exhausted/freaked out or if she is actually thinking about laying eggs. Oh why couldn't I be a turtle mind reader? (ha ha) At the moment it is 65 degrees outside and that is pretty warm for almost December in Arkansas, but I am glad that it is not too cold for her. The grass is a little wet because it rained this morning but I think she is ok. I have no idea of how long to leave her out there and it is getting pretty late. I will keep everyone updated. I never thought I could love these turtles so much, and everybody at work thinks that I am crazy for putting so much time and energy into a turtle, but I don't care. Thanks for everyones thoughts and I will keep you posted.
BranBran

[BRANBRAN]

Well, it has only been about thirty minutes since my last post. We went ahead and brought her in because it is so late. No eggs, she moved to three total places but barely even scratched at them. She seems ok in the tank now, so we will try again after work tomorrow.
BranBran