Urgent Care :: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:00 pm   Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

Good Evening!

I was just wondering if someone could have a look at the photos below to ensure that my RES juvenile has good shell condition....
a couple concerns....
1. The yellow ridge on his carapace keel.....I believe this is normal shedding, right?...gold colour, not soft, no smell
2. brownish spots on plaston around where the green spots are.....they are roughly symmetrical on each side and are not soft (well his plaston is not rock hard either as he is still a baby, but they are not squishy) I have read that it is common for them to develop these spots...is this true?
3. the seams between his shell are larger than when I got him, is this normal? do they go back down in size once he sheds? I know that people say feed as much as you can in 15 mins....if I did this he would explode...he is a fast eater so I give him 10 baby pellets per day (which he consumes in minutes) and a little bit of dried bugs at night

shell.jpg
yellowish, gold on keel of carapace....shedding?


plaston.jpg
brownish spots developing around green spots on plaston
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:38 pm   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

kinda dry/better images of carapace...

koopa1.jpg


koopa2.jpg


koopa3.jpg
KoopaTroopa22
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:39 pm   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

koopa4.jpg

one more...
KoopaTroopa22
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:04 pm   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

Welcome!

The yellow edges are perfectly fine. I had them with my son's turtle when he was young.

I can't comment on the plastron spots.

The seams between the scutes are there as he grows. However, yours are extremely wide and 10 baby pellets at his size seems extreme.

The "as much as they eat in 15 minutes" advice comes from people selling food. The recommendation here is as much food as would fit in the turtles head, each day. At least at your turtle's age. Once he is bigger, you actually want to cut down on the amount of pellets/protein.

There's some really good advice on feeding pellets on the main site:

http://www.redearslider.com/pellets.html

Lots of other good stuff on nutrition and RES care in general there.
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ljapa
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:32 pm   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

Will the seams between the scutes go back to normal when he sheds the scutes? if not, is there a way to bring them back to normal if not? I noticed when I dried him out for pictures and pressed on his shell....although not-squishy and hard to the touch, if I applied a little pressure I could feel the shell compress slightly....didnt wanna mess around with that or press too much in case it was harmful to him......this is normal in small turtles right?
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:48 am   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

The seams are basically where new scutes/bone are growing. As it matures, the color will change back to normal, and you'll see new growth seams form. This will happen long before any shedding.

The danger of it happening too fast is that the old scutes won't shed off fast enough as new ones come in. This can lead to what is called pyramiding--instead of a smooth shell, there will be pyramids of retained scutes. The scutes are a protective layer of dead tissue, think finger nails or hair. Since it is layers of dead tissue, there is no immune system operating. Pyramided scutes can lead to a greater chance of infection, that can grow protected underneath the layers of retained scutes. This infection can spread into living tissue. Worse, since it is a big healthy infection once it hits living tissue, it can overwhelm the ability to fight it off.

It's not guaranteed that will happen, but multiple layers of unshed scutes ups the possibility.

Don't panic, though. You don't have multiple layers yet, and many of us did the same things with younger turtles. Search some of my posts and you can see pictures of my turtle with growth seams and concern that I was over feeding. Many of us have been there.

If you don't cut back on feeding, you may have issues down the road. If you do, you may have an extra layer or two of retained scutes that will eventually be shed away.

I don't know how accurate it is, but one comment I read as I was struggling with this was to look at the area between the front legs and the neck as your turtle is swimming (the equivalent of just above the collarbone on us). If it bulges out, you are over feeding. If it goes way in, you are under feeding. If it is smooth or better slightly concave, you are doing it right.

I can tell you that it is difficult to get it right with a turtle your size, from, my experience. It's like even feeding the same amount can be fine for a while, then it's too much and the growth seams are back, then they've grown so much that the pellets you are always feeding aren't enough.

In the wild, your turtle would not get such regular food. You'll realize if you are under feeding. And, even if you over feed, your turtle will beg for more and act like its starving any time you come by. At least if mine is any guide.

Here was my post concerned about over feeding:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33092

You can see from the picture the same yellow edges and growth seams that were almost as bad, though you can also see them starting to turn into scutes with color.

I did cut back at that point, and his shell looks much better now.
Last edited by ljapa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tobi a RES born in 2012
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:57 am   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

Oh, and as to the 10 minutes vs 15, when I was concerned mine was growing too fast, I was using the guideline of enough to fit in his head. He'd have them gone in under a minute unless one floated away and he had to search for it.
Tobi a RES born in 2012
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ljapa
 
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:12 pm   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

When you're not sure... give a little less food than a little more. The wide seams do indicate fast growth. What kind of bugs and where did you get them from?

Those green designs on his plastron will go away and be replaced by black/brown splotches.. that's normal.
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:04 pm   Re: Shedding Scutes, advice on shell condition...

I've had my turtle since June and I still have a hard time with only giving her as much as would fit in her head. It makes me feel like a horrible mommy because she begs so much, but I don't want her to end up with pyramiding so I've learned to just ignore the begging, or sometimes, I'll walk over to the tank and call her, and if she decides to swim up to me I'll pick her up and take her somewhere where she can just wander around for a little bit, because at least when she's exploring and beating up my cats she's not begging. She's grown a lot, though, which was a little disconcerting, but she doesn't have any signs of pyramiding and her tissues are not even close to bulging out of her shell, so I'm putting the growth down to her being a female. Plus, she seems to sort of self-regulate - she has 12 fish swimming around in there with her, and has for almost a month, and she doesn't even try to eat them. She ate one when we first got them, and it was sort of just hanging out near the top, so I think it was already dying. Not that I'm just giving her a ton of food and letting her eat what she wants, but her disinterest in the fish is a little reassuring. The only things she'll go nuts over are dried mealworms or shrimp.
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