Habitat - Outdoor :: Smart idea? Bury 100g in Phx? Algea control? Outdoor home?

[notbrigum]

Hello, I've read ~20% of the topics in the category, finding some info but not all. Need feedback before we create a less than ideal habitat and waste my time. Please take a moment.
We recently picked up a 8-12y/o female RES and a 100g tank. We live in the Phx/Chandler area. HOT summers. Our above ground spa hits 108 under a fully covered patio. Super Swimmer, the turtle, currently walks the back yard and gets in and out of her kiddie pool (she has steps in and out). The PLAN.. is to dig a hole deep enough to bury ~80% of this tank below grade and completely fill it with water, provide a sunning area, two pumps/gravel/undergravel filter, and heater for winter time, and a ramp out and down. The idea is to provide a relatively easy to maintain tank for her that she can live in/outside year round and still roam the yard if interested as she seems to want to hide/sleep under plants, under leaves against the hot concrete fence about a third of the time.
Questions;
1. Will the water stay cool enough in the summer? Tank is 48"W x 18"D x 24"H. I should have about 18" below grade. These guys lives in lakes all over the place here but lakes are much deeper.
2. Will additional lighting be needed for sunning? I wouldn't think so since she's outside. She just needs a large flat surface to dry out on, right?
Any other feedback, questions, let me have it. Thanks, Bill

[packfan1]

I have an indoor set up as where I am at, it gets very cold during the fall/winter months.
I have not heard of anyone burying a tank in the ground. I have heard and seen some pond set ups. You shouldn't need extra lighting outside where you are at. I would be concerned about water temp getting to high though. I do know that there are better experts on this topic than I, but I did want to share some thoughts about your plan. You should soon start seeing others write you with there information. The other thought is just how cold it gets there during winter? You may need and indoor set up if it does drop down to low. I understand that is is not very good for a captive res to hibernate, so you may not want to think of that as an option.
Good luck and congrates on your turtle.

[notbrigum]

Winter in Phx area does get to freezing, BARELY, and only for maybe 10-15 nights. An aquarium heater set for 75? should keep thing fine. The day time highs in the winter are..? ~55-60? That should be warm enough to get out and sun. These guys are all over our neighborhood lakes and golfcourse lakes year round so I don't think winter will be a prob. My concern is mostly the summer highs, 120 in the shade. I know that if the tank were above ground it would easily crest 100. I wanting to bury it for the insulation of the ground to keep it cooler and to allow easier access for her to get in/out. Comments on the summer temp in Phx and a small 100g tank partially submerged? These guys love the summers here but the wild ones are of course in lakes that are sev feet deep so plenty of cool water. I just don't know how cool this one will remain. Guesses?..

[RESnTX]

Is there a reason you have to move her outside?
She will NOT be safe "roaming" the yard. She will either find a way out or be hurt by predators. Taking her outside for supervised play time in a kiddie pool or running around on the grass is fine.
If you have to leave her outside you should consider an inexpensive stock tank, not burying a glass tank.

[notbrigum]

Reason for outside? So she can roam the yard, dig in plants as desired. One less thing IN the house. Real sunshine.
Not Safe? Not 100% but what is? Much safer in our back yard than in the wild. Only predator would be neighbors cats. Our cats aren't interested in her now, neighbor's cats might be but would prob be chased off by our own.
Not bury glass? Why? It's made to hold the water. It's easy to bury, 4' x 2' hole. It's cheap as we already have it. We were hoping to have the front exposed so you could watch her under water too. Stock tank won't allow that.
I'm sure few people make in ground ponds out of glass tanks but if you want a viewable front like an above ground tank, it's the only way.
Any ideas above how well the ground will insulate the water? Keep it cool in the summer? Certainly don't want to overheat her.
Thank you for the comments. Need more!

[RESnTX]

You really need to do more research and read over more of the topics of RES care. If the temp gets over 110 in the summer I really don't see how burying a tank 18 inches will keep the water at or even near 75-80 degrees. You could easily find a deep bucket or something, fill it with water and bury it to test how hot the water gets.
You also greatly underestimate cats and other pets as predators.
(I really hope someone else helps me out with this... )

[GunnerMan]

I agree burying a glass fish tank sounds kind of crazy to me. It will get hot, it may stay cooler near the bottom but I have a pond in my yard with a shallow area (about 4-5 inches deep) and that shallow area has water temps of 80-90 in the summer. 100 gallons dosent stand a chance of staying cool.

Roaming the yard? we have your yard enclosed by walls and gates that we have assured the turtles can not get out but in the year we have had these turtles I have yet to see them even attempt to go farther than 1 foot from waters edge.

If I were you I would go to homecheapo get enough liner for a 5'x4'x3.5' pond. Could even go 4x4x4. Then since you want to have a see through side in the ground and assuming you make the pond 5x4x3.5 go get two pieces of plexi-glass measuring 4.5'x3' that gives you 3 inches on each side to work with. Now drill about 3 holes on each side of the plexiglass so you can put bolts through each. This will be a hard part, dont drill to close to the edge of the plexi-glass or it will crack, use small bits and work your way up to desired hole size.
Now that you have your 2 pieces of glass ready to go mark where the window will be on the liner and drill holes in the liner in the same spots as the glass so the bolts can pass through. Take some silicone and put a bead of it all the way around the outside edge of your two plexiglass pieces, this will assure there is no leaks between the glass and the liner. Now put one piece of glass on the outside of the liner and one on the inside and and bolt it down with stainless steel bolts, nuts, and washers. Make them as tight as you can without cracking the glass. Let the silicone set overnight and wall you have a window.

[notbrigum]

A tank buried in the ground is stays quite cool. Many homes (experimental) in the SW are bermed, have 6'-8' of dirt piled against the sides and need no airconditioning. There are many HVAC systems that pump refridgerant in hoses below ground in order to exchange heat. I THINK.. the ground temp once you get sev feet below grade is 65-75 year round. The piled dirt is a large insulating mass. I like the idea of burying bucket to find out. Simple solution. Prob though is waiting till July /Aug. I was hoping someone in the SW has some idea how deep is deep enough.
There are no other pets in our yard so cats and I guess birds are the only thing that could get in. I've no idea but surely doves and greckles don't eat turtles? Greckles are kind of aggressive but?.. Anyone?
4"-5" deep is not very much, would get hot, I agree. 18" is ~4x deeper. The more water below grade/deeper the more insulated it is. Good idea about making a window in a liner. If ~18-20" isn't deep enough, we'll go the liner route for 24"-36" deep. Thanks for the idea.
Anyone in the SW have outside yearround ponds? Thanks.

[AZCAT98]

I have a dug-in year round pond in AZ. I would think that your pond water would heat up pretty good, but as others mentioned you can easily test that. My pond is about 500g and 3' deep at the deepest spot and the temp doesn't get too much above 80* in the summer. As for the winter, I don't use a heater, but you could I guess. My turtles just seem to hang out on the bottom of the pond in the winter, they're pretty lethargic due to the temp, but they do fine. Hope this helps.

[steve]

A glass tank buried? A 100 gallon glass tank will have roughly 3/8" thick glass -- possibly 1/4". You do need to consider that soil shifting will exert pressure unpredictably -- not how water exerts pressure outwards. You are risking the tank to be collapsed inward. As for a viewing area provided by the glass tank, you won't be seeing much at that angle and with that much buried.

As for temperatures, I'd be looking at 300 - 500 gallons to start. 100 gallons is about the size of a bathtub and it will still heat up quickly.

[GunnerMan]

i do live in the SW(New Mexico) and most of the well drillers around here are really gettin into the Geothermal field where they tap into the natural temps. underground. Usually about 3-5 feet down is where the temp starts to level off. of course 18" down it will be cooler but you still have all that surface area for the sun to beat down on, creating much more heat than any cooling effect the earth might have could counteract. In my pond wich is 1,500 gals or so in our back yard has a huge surface area for its size and even though the surface is always moving it can still warm up a great deal for the first few inches.

I think that tank will turn into swampy temperatures not gonna hit outside air temps but id be betting you see 80 degrees pretty regularly. To bad we dont have any mathmaticians and a quick google search didnt provide me with any useable numbers of the amount of heat the sun gave off so I can't prove anything but try it for yourself.

I think it will heat up substancially, the question is will it heat up to a dangerous point throughout the day...


Now if you just want to totally aleviate the issue get some flaoting plants for shade, thats what all pond owners do to control temperatures. Obviously you cant put water lillies or anything in a samller tank like that but there are tons of flating plants and plants you could plant around it. So if you really want to use your tank, go out buy some nice bushes that will provide lots of shade to the tank, get a few Water Hyacinth, maybe some duckweed, or some water lettuce,cellery. All will block the suns rays from meeting water. Remeber though having your tank outside makes it suseptible to a lot more bacterias and organisms, most harmless but you can kiss the days of that nice clean aquarium look year round good bye.

[zoologist]

i have to say, after reading all of these opinions i have to say i would agree with going with a stock tank. it is made for all of the tempeture changes that a tank may not be able to stand up to. I am sure there is some way of modifying it so you can watch your turtle swim.
also, make sure it is at least 3 feet deep at its deepest point if you plan on hibernating your turtle. however, you seem pretty set in your ways and it seems like you are going to do the tank idea anyway. Good luck with that.

congrats on the new addition!

[bcjchapman]

Hello notbrigum, how did your outdoor habitat work out? I live in East Mesa, and our RES lives outside all year, even now in the winter low 40's at night, water temp 55-60 degrees, she has ALWAYS done just fine, never been sick. She is just slow and lethargic in the winter months.

As for the summer, we haven't had a a problem with the water temps being hot. Water temps in her pond and her pool near 100 degrees, but no issues.

[THERUIZFAMILY]

Hey...how do you have that set up ? Is it just the liner and stones stacked up to the edges ? Is there dirt/soil between the edges and the planter stones ?

[bcjchapman]

Hey...how do you have that set up ? Is it just the liner and stones stacked up to the edges ? Is there dirt/soil between the edges and the planter stones ?

It's not a liner, its the actual pond itself inside the stacker blocks. I just
stacked the blocks around the pond on level ground. There is not dirt
between edges. I did not want to bury the pond, as that poses potential problems with my RES getting out, the pond cracking from the soil, and if there is a pond problem, I don't want it in the ground where I won't be
able to tell.