Feeding and Nutrition :: Quote by a turtle biologist

[xsavingsaturdayx]

Okay we and several other sites all go by feeding a baby turtle everyday right? This guy doesnt think its neccesary and its harmful, he's a turtle biologist and keeps over 1000 turtles.

Batagur quotes:" This is completely inaccurate. I don't understand why so many books and people that think they know something about turtles insist on recommending that baby turtles be fed everyday (let alone 3 times a day). Turtles are reptiles, not mammals...turtles do not eat everyday. Many species go 3-6 months out of every year without eating.

Every second or third day is more than enough feeding for just about any species of turtle when they are young. And once or twice a week is generally plenty for adults. Most species of turtles grow very slowly in the wild and this should be replicated in captivity as best you can. Sure you can speed up their growth rate twice as fast in captivity by pumping them full of food everyday...but at what cost? Thin shells and bones. Deformities. Pyramiding. Shortened life span.

Bottom line is that most species of turtles take many years to reach maturity and I believe this should be replicated as best as possible under captive conditions."

Once again alot of sites say to start feeding every other day once a turtle hits 4 inches, but this guy thinks you should start doing that since they are little.,could feeding them everyday (maybe not 3 times a day, but atleast once) shorten their life span? Currently I feed my two 3 inch turtles everyday, along with some veggies and I supplement their food with vitamins. And a cricket, meal worm, or some chopped up fish with no seasoning, very well cooked..once in a blue moon, as in..a treat. What do you guys think? I hope you dont get mad at me for questioning the feeding info on the site, but I am curious and not trying to stir trouble or looking for arguements.

BTW: here is the thread on this http://www.turtletimes.com/Forums/index ... ntry193341

[SpotsMama]

I really don't care for the tone of Batagur's post. It's very arrogent. It's also amazingly lacking in precision for someone in this person's position. This individual is associated (though I don't know in what capacity) with the Savannah River Ecological Laboratory which has been in the news because it's a venerable old research facility that the federal government is about to (or maybe already has) shut down. I think the 1000 turtles he/she speaks of are property of the facility which has lots of aquatic creatures of all types.

The reason I say it's lacking in precision is that it doesn't make sense to me to speak of feeding frequency without also talking about feeding amount. And also what you are feeding. If you feed your turtle just a tiny little bit of food at each feeding, and it's very low in calories, then I would think feeding only twice a week would not be enough. If, on the other hand, you are feeding it a chunk of steak, then maybe once or twice a month would be too much!

It's like saying "If you come to work for me I'll pay you $1000". If you don't know whether that's $1000 a day or $1000 a month then it's going to be hard to decide if that's a good deal or not.

I feed Spot half a headful every day plus green leafies. Maybe once a month he gets a treat like some frozen crickets or a shrimp. He doesn't have a thin shell or deformed bones or pyramiding.

I looked at the nuitritiion information on the site where that post was and it was almost identical to what's on here.

There are some things about a natural environment that I really don't want to recreate. I don't want Spot to hibernate. I don't want him exposed to other turtles that might hurt him. I don't want him in a pond that's going to dry up every few years because there's a drought. And I don't want him on a starvation diet.

I'm going to assume Mr/Ms Batagur was having a bad day. I guess that would be understandable for someone whose position and the work he/she believes in were being eliminated.

My personal opinion? If you follow the guidelines on here you and your turtles will be fine. These guidelines are consistent with the other reputable info out there.

[xsavingsaturdayx]

Yeah I trust this site and I found it weird, though not every site has the same thought's about what to feed and how much, they are pretty similar right? Actually I think that's an old post from 2005 if I am correct, so I dont know..

I'm going to keep feeding my turtle's how I feed them now, they seem to be doing fine. And yeah I never want to attempt hibernation, I cant believe people actually do that! It's so risky. But oh well.

[steve]

I think he is really expressing his opinions about overfeeding. Overfeeding is one of the biggest mistakes inexperienced turtle keepers make. it does not help that many people do not know what to do or even know they are getting bad advice (from pet stores, even some packaging has poor directions).

It is believed that excessive growth can cause organ failure sooner among other things. We often tell people to limit the amount of pellets/protein and offer variety such as vegetables. Batagur's point doesn't go into detail on what he thinks is clearly appropriate. I do think there is a bit of personal reaction due to the poor advice he was responding to. We often act quickly to provide correct info, though it can be completely frustrating when "inexperienced" people continually offer poor advice.

[SpotsMama]

Steve, I'm sure you are right. A lot of the info out there is very bad and it would be natural for someone who cares a great deal about the subject to react in a strong way.

I found it somewhat distressing that this person, in his position, would make a comment that intentionally includes most of the conventional responsible info that's out there. Because of his position he carries a lot of credibility and it would be a shame if readers concluded that the conventional responsible info is unreliable - just as xsavingsaturdayx was questioning.

However, if it's been since 2005 that he made the comments...and the world hasn't come to an end.....then it's probably going to be ok!

[kmichael55]

I read on another site that people hibernate their turtles in the freezer! Is this true? I would never want to risk that. Other than that site I've only heard of letting your turtles choose to hibernate outside, not by forcing them to live in a freezer for a couple months.

[jenaero]

Definetly not the freezer. Some people hibernate box turtles (not aquatics) in the fridge to control temperature. Anything at or below freezing would kill them.

[kmichael55]

oh ok, that still sounds scary though

hey i just noticed you have a rat...i want a dumbo so badly they're adorable
do you feed your snakes rats? that would be creepy

[DavidY]

The Northern Painted Turtle hatchlings can actually freeze solid (Edit: <--- not quite true, see the next 2 posts below) through the winter, but the adults will bury themselves in the mud so that they will be insulated from the freezing temperature since they cannot tolerate freezing like the hatchlings and eggs can.

[marisa]

I've read some info on Eastern (not Northern) Painted Turtles, which concluded that EPTs don't freeze solid---it would kill them.

Feeding schedules, like using UVB lights as an example, depend to some extent on the philosophy of the keeper and what has worked for them. I know some experienced keepers who wouldn't take issue with what was written. I think Batagur makes some valid points.

[DavidY]

Oh, the show I saw mentioned the Painted Turtles up in Canada and how the hatchlings were able to survive through the winter encased in snow and ice. They showed a baby turtle that was entombed in snow and ice (it was on the ground, I think near its nest) and they showed time lapse photography as the snow/ice melted, then the baby started to move and finally made its way down to the water. It was pretty amazing. It's only supposed to be the hatchlings that have that ability. There's other reports on the net that talk about it too.

I know that when cells freeze, the frozen water within the cells expands and destroys the cell walls, that's why most animals cannot survive being frozen solid. But I have heard of another kind of reptile that produces some kind of natural antifreeze (sugar compounds?) in its bodies fluids that prevent the cell walls from bursting. So you're right, freezing solid is an inaccurate statement. It's actually that they are able to withstand below freezing temperatures.

[steve]

You know... I think I saw that a couple of years ago. However I'd like to know the conditions (temps, duration, thickness) they were using.

[scripta_elegans]

Here's an article discussing it.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1988PNAS...85.8350S

[DavidY]

Oooh, very cool. Thanks Scripta! I remember reading a report or article about that a while ago but couldn't remember what animal it was about. So I guess the Painted Turtle hatchling is the only reptile that can tolerate a certain level of freezing.

[grey goose]

Most of my professional life has been spent working with, and around, people with PHd's. Many (but not all) do their research, form their opinions, submit their "White Papers" to their peers, and generally remain blissfully ignorant of the opinions of the "unwashed" (me), who happen to be the ones who literally have their boots on the ground.......Take five of these fine people and put them in a room with the EXACT same data and ask them to form an opinion (or consensus) and guess what? You'll have five different opinions......driven by ego and interpreted as arrogance.

Although turtles in the wild get about as much protein in a month that our captive turtles get in a week, I feed my baby turts everyday until they let go of their fear of me. This usually takes about 6 months, although Beaker took longer, and she is still afraid of me. Once they start begging, I go to every other day. No matter how you slice it, you have to remember they are still wild animals that are tamed thru conditioning.....