Feeding and Nutrition :: Unusual feeding behavior... is it a serious concer

[umigame]

Hi all,

New to the forum here, but I was wondering if any of you might have some wisdom to shed on this situation.

I have two red-eared sliders, that have been raised together for over six years now. In the past 2 years, I've been abroad, so my parents have taken care of them, and I just got them back a few months ago. One of them is decidedly larger than the other, so for the sake of this post, let's call them Alpha and Beta.

In general, in the winter, because of the cooler temps (and I have no heater in the tank), they don't eat very often. In the summertime, I have a separate feeder bucket for them (easier to clean up the mess after feeding) and I feed them separately, but in the winter, all I do is drop some food into the tank once every few days and see if they nibble-- if they do, I drop more in. This has been a consistent pattern for as long as I can remember.

In the past week or so, I've noticed that Beta has been exhibiting some unusual behavior. When food goes in the tank, Alpha notices and goes to eat it, and Beta tracks Alpha's behavior. Instead of paying attention to the food, Beta will snap *at* Alpha, as if to snatch the food from Alpha's mouth! I tried taking Beta out and putting him in the feeder bucket with some food of his own; he doesn't touch it. But put him back in the tank, and he tries to snatch food from Alpha again. Now, so far, they don't seem to have injured themselves, and they don't seem to be antagonistic in other ways. I have a basking platform set up in the tank, and often find Beta on top of Alpha on the platform, just chilling out. But I'm worried that they could hurt each other.

Has anyone ever seen behavior similar to this, and if so, what can be done to correct it? Thanks in advance for words of wisdom.

[papoopeepoo]

Welcome!

Although it might seem like the turtles should be friends, seeing that they grew up together, it is most likely untrue. One reason that beta may be considerably smaller is because Alpha is grabbing all his food before Beta can get to it. This is beside the fact that the smaller turtle may well be a male, while the larger is a female.

it is a good idea to definately feed, if not house, the turtles seperately. Can you assure that your turtles also have the correct living conditions (UVB + Heat lamps, basking area, warm water (74-78 degrees), good filtration)?

[TheComputerGremlin]

I'm not sure where you are from, but your turtles need to have a consistent temperature year round. If during the winter their water temps fall below 68 degrees or so, they will starve to death because they aren't cold enough to hibernate but they are too cold to eat. Optimally they need about 74 degree water. A water heater is one of the cheapest components of the turtle's tank, running in the $20-30 range. Please go and get one of those for the sake of your turtles.

[umigame]

Thanks for the fast response.

@ papoopeepoo: Since the turtles have been little, I've noticed that Alpha was much smarter about food than Beta. When they were little, Beta would run away when he saw food getting dropped into the water, whereas Alpha quickly figured out that it was a good thing. I started feeding them separately when they were little because I noticed this, so they both do get food in a fair manner, but yet Beta remains smaller. I also suspect that Alpha is female and Beta is male... and so a new thought occurs to me-- what does mating behavior look like?! It's been a number of years and I honestly hadn't seen this type of behavior before (although like I said, I'd been away and maybe my parents didn't observe them closely enough)... and just now, observing them, Beta's getting up close and personal in Alpha's face again, even without the food, so I wonder if this could be a display of aggression?! Yikes.

Any turtle psychologists in the house?

As for living conditions, I don't have a water heater, as I've said, but they do have a basking place-- the platform-- and a heat lamp. The UVB one I had before broke, and I'm still saving up for a new one. Do you think that's what's causing the strange behavior? I really hope I won't have to house them separately, because right now, two setups just aren't feasible for me.

[Caphits]

The behavior if probably from low and erratic temps, and lack of UVB.

[seanwb]

I think you have three issues here. Two easily solved, but one may be more of an issue.
1. You need a heater to get them both feeding properly a.s.a.p. When you get it slowly increase the temperature by a a degree or 2 a day. A heater from ebay is really cheap. I have seen water temperatures where turltes are not hibernating, but not eating descibed as the "death zone"
2. As a lower priority you should replace the UVB light
3. As for the behaviour, it could be aggression starting, but you will need to wait and see what happens when they are both eating properly

[umigame]

Thanks everyone.

I'll either go to the pet store this weekend or try to get a heater online. UVB may have to wait until next month when I have a bit more cash. ^^;

Worried about the aggression... from reading a lot of other posts, it looks like I may either have to get a MUCH bigger Rubbermaid tub for them, or separate them entirely. But I'll keep an eye on how they respond to the other changes first.

[TheComputerGremlin]

Is it possible for you to post some photos? First, photos will help us determine if Alpha and Beta are male or female. You want photos of the front claws and the underside of the tail, stretched out if possible. I'm surprised you haven't see mating behavior in the last 6 years, which leads me to believe you have a pair of males or females. If that is the case, it's possible that the smaller on has a stomach parasite (easy to diagnose and correct with a stool sample and a vet). As for aggression/mating behavior, the most common thing is called fluttering, it's where one will put their front paws in front of the others face and kind of dance back and forth. Stealing food can certainly escalate to further aggression, but that's pretty mild at the moment.

How big are they? How big is your tank? You mention not having a UVB, is it just the bulb that needs replaced? UVB bulbs cost around $15, though you can find some deals online, and the fixture can be anything rated for the bulb. If your previous UVB burned out, your turtles have probably been without UVB for many years. UVB bulbs are only good for 6-8 months, at which point the UVB output has fallen well below the 5%. The UVB won't cause aggression, but it will cause the shell to become damaged because the calcium isn't being converted to vitamin D.