General Care Discussion :: Random death...

[SneakySushie]

Okay so ginger just passed away.... I don't know why, i had her in a kiddie pool out in the sun like I told you guys.... and she coughed up a lot of blood and passed away... I found her in rigor mortis.. 1 hour after...

Now I am sort of depressed because almost everything I keep sort of dies on me, whether it's from some sort of sickness or just pure ignorance on my part... now I feel like owning a snapping turtle. Something that just doesn't die.

[Kansasslider]

Im really sorry to hear that. You don't have any idea what might have caused it? How old was your turtle?

[SneakySushie]

Im really sorry to hear that. You don't have any idea what might have caused it? How old was your turtle?

I don't know how old she was but my guess was like 3-5 years tops. She coughed up blood and died.

[Kansasslider]

I'm sorry, I have only owned turtles for 3 years so I don't know what happened. Maybe Steve or Jeremiah will know more. Once again I'm sorry for your loss.

[SneakySushie]

I'm sorry, I have only owned turtles for 3 years so I don't know what happened. Maybe Steve or Jeremiah will know more. Once again I'm sorry for your loss.

Thank you... I feel so bad for her...

[Jeremiah]

That is very odd. It might be possible that she was briefly attacked by some vermin, but she would look noticeably mangled if that were the case.

If you can answer some of these questions, we will learn more about the situation.

1) Did you offer any shade and/or water while she was in the sun? What is the outside temperature at your location?

2) If you found her in rigor mortis, how did you know she coughed up the blood (i.e., is there any other body area that the blood could have come from)? Have you checked the inside of her mouth for lesions?

3) Was she actively trying to escape the tub (i.e., trying to climb out the side then falling down)? I've seen turtles do that a lot, and sometimes they fall hard on their chests. If she did this hard enough, there is a small (very small)
chance of her damaging/puncturing a thoracic organ or the inside of her throat, hence the blood.

4) What are the normal temperatures you kept her at? If they were too cold, she may have acquired a RI that took its toll from the stress of being outdoors. (Again, very doubtful--you would have noticed other signs before the bleeding). This is still assuming that she coughed the blood up.

[SneakySushie]

That is very odd. It might be possible that she was briefly attacked by some vermin, but she would look noticeably mangled if that were the case.

If you can answer some of these questions, we will learn more about the situation.

1) Did you offer any shade and/or water while she was in the sun? What is the outside temperature at your location?

2) If you found her in rigor mortis, how did you know she coughed up the blood (i.e., is there any other body area that the blood could have come from)? Have you checked the inside of her mouth for lesions?

3) Was she actively trying to escape the tub (i.e., trying to climb out the side then falling down)? I've seen turtles do that a lot, and sometimes they fall hard on their chests. If she did this hard enough, there is a small (very small)
chance of her damaging/puncturing a thoracic organ or the inside of her throat, hence the blood.

4) What are the normal temperatures you kept her at? If they were too cold, she may have acquired a RI that took its toll from the stress of being outdoors. (Again, very doubtful--you would have noticed other signs before the bleeding). This is still assuming that she coughed the blood up.

Yeah she had shade, no water though... maybe I should had provided water....

I found her stiff like a log, hence rigor mortis... I found blood on her mouth and blood all over the container... So my assumption was she either got attacked, or died from the heat.... I wasn't paying attention to her... I don't know how hot it was since anything above 70 degrees is actually hot to me... but today felt exceptionally hot...

Blondy just recovered but see if it was the heat, how come ginger died, but not blondy? Blondy was perfectly fine... If it was a vermin... then it must have gone after ginger alone because I also had the baby painted turtle outside....

[Kansasslider]

Did the pool have water in it?

[SneakySushie]

Did the pool have water in it?

No it did not, I thought for an hour two of basking in an empty pool of just towels like someone had mentioned to me... would had been fine.

[Jeremiah]

Thanks for the information. Yes, providing water is a must during "turtle field trips", unless they're only outside for a few minutes. I'm sorry to have to ask you to do this, but could you dab the mouth down with a wet paper towel, open her mouth, and look inside? That way, you can see if the issue was in the mouth or deeper inside the body (which I won't ask you to inspect, obviously).

You mention that Blondy "just recovered". Was she lethargic or otherwise "off" when you found her? Were they in the same tub? If she was acting dazed, then the heat was probably killing her as well. She just happened to outlast Ginger, assuming that they were relative equals when it came to overall health.

Something else to consider is that heat causes blood vessels to dilate. It's much easier to elicit blood flow from injuries, etc. when heated to the extent your turtles were. Remember, unlike lizards, turtles have a shell that absorbs heat and transfers it to their inner bodies (imagine a baked potato wrapped in foil). Anyway, that being said, it's possible that she suffered a minor internal injury while trying to get out, and instead of clotting, her increased body temperature kept the blood flowing. At this point, that's the only possibility I can think of (only because I once had to put my turtles in a kiddie pool outside, and my female kept "pounding" herself against the floor, chest/throat-first, because she kept sliding down after trying to climb out the side). It may also have been a heart problem (rare with turtles, but given the outdoor environment she was in, I would imagine there was a lot of cardiac pressure--resulting in a "self-perfusion"). I'm still going to stick with the previous guess, though.

Like Kansas said, Steve will probably know more--he's got the most experience with RES (although his are so healthy, they've probably never had an issue...)

Anyhow, that's about the only reason I can think of at the moment--given the temperature, location of the blood, and what I've seen from turtles stressed out from being outside without water and in a closed tub-like environment. This conclusion may also be supported by the fact that you mentioned keeping them in a 5 gallon bucket without any deaths. In such a confined space, she wouldn't have been able to "beat herself up" in the manner I described earlier (not to say that letting them bask in a bucket is okay--it isn't). I am very sorry for your loss, and I'm glad your other turtles are okay.

Also, I might have been the person who suggested the pool-with-towels approach, but I didn't know you were planning to have them outside that long without water. Most people I talk to only let their turtles walk around in the sun for 20 minutes or so.

[SneakySushie]

Thanks for the information. Yes, providing water is a must during "turtle field trips", unless they're only outside for a few minutes. I'm sorry to have to ask you to do this, but could you dab the mouth down with a wet paper towel, open her mouth, and look inside? That way, you can see if the issue was in the mouth or deeper inside the body (which I won't ask you to inspect, obviously).

You mention that Blondy "just recovered". Was she lethargic or otherwise "off" when you found her? Were they in the same tub? If she was acting dazed, then the heat was probably killing her as well. She just happened to outlast Ginger, assuming that they were relative equals when it came to overall health.

Something else to consider is that heat causes blood vessels to dilate. It's much easier to elicit blood flow from injuries, etc. when heated to the extent your turtles were. Remember, unlike lizards, turtles have a shell that absorbs heat and transfers it to their inner bodies (imagine a baked potato wrapped in foil). Anyway, that being said, it's possible that she suffered a minor internal injury while trying to get out, and instead of clotting, her increased body temperature kept the blood flowing. At this point, that's the only possibility I can think of (only because I once had to put my turtles in a kiddie pool outside, and my female kept "pounding" herself against the floor, chest/throat-first, because she kept sliding down after trying to climb out the side). It may also have been a heart problem (rare with turtles, but given the outdoor environment she was in, I would imagine there was a lot of cardiac pressure--resulting in a "self-perfusion"). I'm still going to stick with the previous guess, though.

Like Kansas said, Steve will probably know more--he's got the most experience with RES (although his are so healthy, they've probably never had an issue...)

Anyhow, that's about the only reason I can think of at the moment--given the temperature, location of the blood, and what I've seen from turtles stressed out from being outside without water and in a closed tub-like environment. This conclusion may also be supported by the fact that you mentioned keeping them in a 5 gallon bucket without any deaths. In such a confined space, she wouldn't have been able to "beat herself up" in the manner I described earlier (not to say that letting them bask in a bucket is okay--it isn't). I am very sorry for your loss, and I'm glad your other turtles are okay.

Also, I might have been the person who suggested the pool-with-towels approach, but I didn't know you were planning to have them outside that long. Most people I talk to only let their turtles walk around in the sun for 20 minutes or so.

Oh okay, so she may have been in a daze because I recall she was "off" sluggish(blondy).... I can't bring myself to go through her and check her up.. I actually burried her when I found her ike that since I felt that's the least I could do... I thought turtles could tolerate high heat up to 96degrees since that's what their basking area has to be like... I would had let her just walk around the yard.... but if I did I she'd get dog poop all over her since our dog pretty much does her business outside in the back yard...

If it makes any difference... everytime she and blondy were outside (everytime that I did this) they were outside for only 1-3 hours tops for maximum sunlight absorption... I wanted to do good by them.., but I guess I ended up messing up...

I also noticed blondy pooped herself everytime I did this... Could that mean something? She always would poop and pee in her container...

[Kansasslider]

Not having any water is what I was afraid of. That's why I asked.

[Jeremiah]

They generally poop and pee like that because they're stressed out.

[SneakySushie]

Not having any water is what I was afraid of. That's why I asked.

Yeah.. If I ever get any species of turtle again... I'll stick to something really hardy that doesn't need UVB like a snapper or a musk or a mud...

You can't really kill a snapping turtle that easily... I've seen people throw bleach (I ended up decking one of them) in their aquarium just to get the snapping turtle to crawl out of the tank... The turtle didn't die, much less care about it... and if I end up killing that by accident ill resign on keeping pets. :C Idk I've had pet fish, pet turtles, pet toads, pretty much a lot of pets and if it wasn't furry it would die on me.. the only thing that's last a long time was this RES we used to have but I took care of as a kid and I'd never let it outside... but i didnt provide UVB cause Id give her D3 in her diet... This was long ago... Then there's this musk turtle who just seems to survive so I am thinking I may fill up another 55 g and set up a community tank with the turtle topper for my musk turtle.. but I feel she may die in deep water so ill keep her in this 29g that I have her set up in...

[SneakySushie]

They generally poop and pee like that because they're stressed out.

So I've been causing them stress... Crap I feel awful now...