General Care Discussion :: My turtle stopped eating, I'm worried

[VulcanSoul]

My juvenile RES (shell diameter abt 6cm) has been eagerly eating pellets every single day since I got him to eat again about 6 weeks ago, but since yesterday he clearly refuses to eat, no matter if I leave him with the food in a separate feeding tank or inside his main tank. Usually he eats Reptomin for Baby Turtles (5-6 pellets per day); I tried Gammarus and even egg white today and he refused it all! I also feel he is less active now, always sitting on the ground in the water at the same spot and staring out of the aquarium when he's left alone (he does react and is alert when I take him out, though).

I have a bit of a setup problem and still working on it since it is very cold here since December and I can only heat up the aquarium air to about 25°C while the water is 28°C (I don't see how I could make the air sufficiently warmer than the water without making the water too cold!). He refuses to go out of the water, I tried different basking platforms, big rocks etc. I don't know if this could be connected to the problem.

I'm worried since I lost a turtle before within five days of behavioral change, even the vet could not save it anymore! I examined the shell closely today, see the attached pictures. I'm not so sure about the black spot on the plastron (don't remember if it was there before), although it does seem to have the same pigmentation as the other markings.

[steve]

Welcome to the forum! How are you heating the water/air? How big is the aquarium? Can you post a picture of the setup? Any other symptoms? If you put him on the basking area, does he stay there?

[VulcanSoul]

Thank you! I forgot the turtle pictures of the shell, I have added them now above. The water is heated by water heater, the air by a 75W night lamp. The tank is covered to achieve a constant air temperature (without the air temp would be 15°C or less), but I'm not able to create a spot with 30°C right now. There is also a Reptiglo 5.0 UVB lamp, but outside (cannot fit it inside & would be fire hazard). The lid does have some slits though. The tank is about 60x40x40cm, the turtle fared well so far in it.

He does not stay on the basking rock. I found him on there in the morning sometimes, but rarely. It seems he feels the spot outside the water is too exposed. So he is almost always under water, just standing up to put the head out from time to time.

One more thing: the excrements of the turtle (it still has even after not eating for two days) are about two pellets in size and mostly whitish, almost transparent. Is that normal?

[Jeremiah]

Most healthy poops are brown, or dark greenish, in color. I've never heard of white poop. Maybe parasites? Do you have any pictures?

[VulcanSoul]

I need to wait, there may not be many now that he is not eating. Maybe it is this color since the pellets are mostly proteine?

I tried to feed him just now and observed him closely. I think it may be some kind of inner mouth or swallowing problem, although I see nothing suspicious from the outside. He actually tried to eat one pellet, opening his mouth and using his both front legs in a very odd way to position the pellet, and then most of the pellet fell back into the water, broken into pieces. After that he totally ignored all the other food, even smaller pellets. Before he was swallowing by mostly shaking his head (like a snake). So it looks to me like he wants to eat but cannot! Have you heard of this issue?

[VulcanSoul]

Another thing I just noticed, and I think he has been doing it for the last few days: he is like "gasping" or "murmuring" under water while breathing, i.e. moving the lips up and down in rhythm with the breathing (i see the jaw bottom moving), but without really opening the mouth. Could this be another symptome?

[Jeremiah]

I wouldn't be too worried about the murmuring, unless he fully opens his mouth on a frequent basis. Your temperatures seem okay, which would seem to rule out things like RI that come from cold temperatures.

Have you tried any other pellet brands? Do you pre-soak any pellets before offering them to him? They sometimes have difficulty crunching down fresh/drier pellets.

[VulcanSoul]

It's been always the same pellets ever since he started eating again. They are swimming in the water for a while, and he used hit at them right away, but I left him in the feeding container for quite some time so the pellets should be well-soaked.
But yeah, I tried different and also smaller pellets, but to no avail.

Here is a photo of the turtle droppings on the tank ground: As you see, they have a darkish core but are mostly white.

[Jeremiah]

Interesting. I've only seen that color of poop once--with my musk turtle. As it turned out, she ate a piece of toilet paper. I know this is a long shot, but is there any chance, even remotely, that your turtle ate something it shouldn't have? Were you wiping off any surfaces with a paper towel? If so, that would explain the lack of eating and light poop.

Something you might want to check is the inside of his mouth, next time he opens it all the way. Some turtles get mouth rot (stomatitis), and that impairs eating ability. I'm not saying he has it, just a possibility.

I also just saw what you said about the lack of basking--assuming that your water is still 28C and you still lack a 30C basking spot (which, by the way, should actually be around 32C), your turtle is not being thermally motivated to bask. As long as your water is warmer than your land area(s), it won't bask because its cold bloodedness won't let it! Another possible factor is your bulb. Is it a tube, or a compact fluorescent? The compacts have been known to cause eye damage and may put out unpleasing light patterns to the reptilian eye.

[steve]

Are you sure that is poop? I don't think it's urates (uric acid and its salts).. could it have been a pellet remnant that has fungus or mold on it? They can get trapped behind things in the tank, and where the water is still.

[VulcanSoul]

Thank you for your insights! There's some good news, my turtle ate today again finally after 4 days, and quite hungry he was! I tried to look into his mouth without scaring him away from eating (quite difficult) and it seemed to look pinkish like a human mouth inside, without any obvious spots, if that is normal.

However, I can confirm what you are seeing in the picture is definitely poo. I took some of your advice regarding mold and cleaned out the entire tank, cleaning everything in it (including the heater) with a boiled water towel. I put the turtle back in after he ate separatedly and half hour later - there it was again! The only things in the aquarium apart from the aquarium are the basking rock and a cuttlefish bone. I have included a picture from above that shows the poo is indeed brownish inside, but wrapped in some glutinous white stuff (there was also a bigger pellet-sized poo that was normal brown) So the presence of these whitish globs may still indicate some health problem.

I only changed one thing since yesterday, which is increase the water temps further to 30°C as I had read this would boost the immune system. Apart from his returning appetite, I also saw him sitting on the basking rock for several hours, what he hadn't done before. Maybe the water now is too warm for his liking? Would you recommend actually returning to a much lower water temperature to offset the fixed air temps? For instance water 22°C - air currently 26°C? Maybe that would inhibit his appetite again though.

I'm also a bit concerned about water quality and cleanliness from this incident (maybe he mistook one of these globs for food!) I'm changing all of the water every 2-3 days currently by taking it out with a small container, but not cleaning the whole aquarium very often. How often should I take out everyting and disinfect it? I'm also lacking access to any turtle-specific disinfection solutions here. I understand I shouldn't use soap etc. for cleaning. Do you recommend any other readily available household items, e.g. vinegar for cleaning?

[VulcanSoul]

Another possible factor is your bulb. Is it a tube, or a compact fluorescent? The compacts have been known to cause eye damage and may put out unpleasing light patterns to the reptilian eye.

It's a compact, Reptiglo 5.0 But I read this one is not hurting the turtle eyes, unlike the 10.0 or Reptisun? It is also placed quite far away (30cm) and has a plastic lid with small slits in between.

[Jeremiah]

If you have a good filter, you shouldn't have to be doing such large water changes so frequently. With regard to temperatures, I would keep things the way they are right now for a few days, to help build up his strength again. After that, try slowly bringing things to the normally recommended temperatures.

Plastic filters out UV, so you might want to consider a different fixture. As long as you keep it far enough away, you should be fine. I've never used a compact, but I've heard that some people who use them have unpleasant experiences later on. I personally don't risk it.

When cleaning the tank, I just use a very weak bleach solution, and then pour in some boiling water to de-chlorinate. If it's a warm day, I leave the tank outside for a while and then put in a little dechlorinator when I first re-fill the tank.

[steve]

Yes, pinkish is normal. What kind of basking area are you using?

[Into_the_Mystic]

My turtle hasn't eaten any lettuce in about 6 months. Doesn't matter what type I put in, Red leaf, green leaf, Romaine.. He won't touch it. I keep putting it in everyday and taking it out un eaten at night. He will still eat his pellets, although he doesn't like the Mura ones at all. I try to give him slivers of carrots, cantaloupe, green beans, boiled sweet potato, etc.. He wants nothing to do with any vegtables and used to eat it everyday! His behavior seems normal and he is basking, but for the life of me I can not get him to eat anything but his pellets and I only feed those every 2 days. Very frustrated with him. He will eat some cuttle bone occasionally but that's pretty much it.