Urgent Care :: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:40 pm   Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Hi guys,

I'm new around here, but I have my turtles for 16 and 11 years (three turtles in total, the oldest one and two brothers). I intensively take care of them and I never had any issue, only one damaged nail once that was quickly solved. Thank god.

The oldest is female, the two brothers are males. Let's call them A, B and C. B usually follows A everywhere, including when they decide to walk around my place (they have access to their tanks and they can get in and out as they want). C was always more isolated. C bites B when they are in the same tank, don't know why. B is starting to bite A, I guess to ask for attention..? Either way, we don't allow them at the same tank. Out of the tanks they act normal, no fights.

But now, I'm really concerned. I spent sometime out of the country, but my turtles stayed in the same place, with the same intensive care, done by my mother. Nothing really changed, but the fact that I was not there. I came back last week and one of them are a bit more active than usual. It's summer time, but still. And in the first day that B saw me, I found him twisted in his tank, with a weird, solid blood mass next to him. Also, I watched a small quantity of blood being expelled by his cloaca. I followed the next days, and nothing else happened. He still acting normal, a bit more active, but normal.

But today the tank was a bit red, and I found the same kind of blood mass. He is still completely active and acting totally normal. I'll take him to the vet tomorrow, since it's too late now (23h), but I wonder if you guys know what this can be..?

He is not feeding as I would expect for summer time. But he does eats. And they diet is still the same, for 11 years, the same stuff I buy in the petshop.

I'm really concerned... I really don't know what can be.

Please, does anyone ever seen this?

Image: https://goo.gl/pxC6Ee

Image
guidoti
 
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:47 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

I've never seen anything like that before. If you still have it, I would have it analyzed. Is it possible someone fed him something? The only thing remotely similar I've seen is some silicone that was eaten from the tank, but it had taken on a brownish green color.
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:49 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Thanks for your reply!

So, a couple of hours later she bleed a lot and made the water in tank red. So I took him to the only turtle-vet around my town immediately. He stayed at the clinic for one night, and he took anti-biotics and cortisol (?) injections. The next day I went there to visit him, and I thought he was highly stressed, scared, and the interns weren't take good care of him at all. So I talked to the vet and after the second shot of both things and a x-ray, he was back home. She didn't bleed more while in the clinic.

I was so scared. He came in completely apathetic, not moving at all but also not hiding in his shell, just staying still both in and out the water tank. I went to bed really concern. The next day, when I wake up, he was walking around the house as normal. So this is his second day at home now, and I managed to make him eat something: I bought actual shrimps and he accepted - the normal food wasn't appealing to him. But he didn't pooped yet, just a little bit in the morning next the first night back home (with no blood).

I got the poo of my two other turtles tested for worms and both came negative. The oldest one, the female, has some sign of blood in her poo, but she is eating and behaving normally and it's just a little bit. Today it came out only in one of her many poos. The x-ray didn't showed anything that he might have eaten too.

So we still don't know what it is and I still don't know if he is recovered. I'm supposed to bring him back to the vet for more shots to night, but to be honest, I think he was so deeply stressed that I think it will cause more harm than good. I'll talk to the vet and ask if I can administrate only the anti-biotics at home, and in pills. I can put some within the actual shrimp, he will eat.

Anyway, I'm still scared and concerned. Luckily, I'm on my vacations and I can follow her closely at home.

Please, wish us the best of lucks!
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:33 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Is it possible he was injured? It not unusual for a male RES to be bitten around that area.
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:49 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Hi Steve,

Thanks for replying again. But no, no damage at all.

But he just bleed again. Liquid, apparently. He is eating, actual shrimps, because I know they love them. I'm giving the medication like this: I cut the shrimp in small pieces and insert the pills inside the piece of shrimp. He eats entirely.

He is eating this since Tuesday. No poo. And today, bleeding again.

The bleeding events, summarized:

Monday 23/01 - Small coagulated blood;
Sunday 29/01 - Big coagulated blood (the one from the photo); 2h later, liquid bleeding (this day I took him to the vet immediately)
Friday 03/02 - Liquid bleeding.

He is taking two pills, one anti-biotics (Baytril) and one anti-inflammatory (Prediderm). He made x-ray, nothing weird inside him. The other two turtles are clean of worms, I couldn't check him because of lack of poo.

That's all... I'm pretty much desperate, because the vet doesn't know much better neither.
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:13 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

What else does he normally eat? He's kept alone in his tank? Is the blood brightly colored? I know the frustration you're going through, it's just a terrible feeling.
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:21 am   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Yes, he is kept alone in his tank. He can't stay with the female, he bites her; neither with his brother, the brother bites him. But never happened any serious accident, I just don't let them together anymore, not even on my watch.

Yes, it's a bright red... Not dark. Definitely not dark.

He is used to eat only http://images.shoptime.io/produtos/01/00/item/6956/6/6956621gg.jpg. Sorry for the portuguese, but it's what he is used to eat his entire life. But every now and then they kind of get sick of eating this and stop for a while. Unfortunately he is in this 'low period' now, as his brother. So I'm giving actual shrimps, with pieces of this normal food inside the shrimp, so he can eat the normal food too. It's working.

Now I have another issue. The region on his right arm where the vets injected the medicine was a little reddish, but now it was a small bubble. I don't know if it's just the healing process or it might be something else. I'm concern with infections. He is always in clean tanks, and spend lots of time outside. He is taking anti-biotics.

I talked to another vet and she said that we can do a blood exam and a echo-sonography too. I have the x-ray pictures with me already. He didn't bleed yesterday, because he decided to sleep outside the water. he is normally taking her sunbath now, normally too.

He acts normally. He is eating (but actual shrimps), but no poo, and occasional bleeding. And this bubble on his right arm, exactly where they injected medicine twice. And I'm more and more concerned...
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:55 am   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Glad to know he's still eating as some anti-biotics will suppress appetite. I'm not sure about the bubble, so much of what he's going through is a mystery. How large is it? Do you know what was in it?

I would have a blood test done, I'm not sure if the first vet offered it. I'm not sure what else can be done at this point but he's lucky to have you!
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:57 am   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Hi!

Thanks, but I'm still very concerned :(

The bubble is not big, it cover basically only the area that was hurt by the injections... And it's a little bubble, I'm pretty sure there is water inside... But it didn't get bigger in the last two days.

I think he ate some of his normal food today. I'm not sure, but it vanished from the tank... Usually he was biting and letting they go, so I could find half of the stuff floating around the tank.

Yesterday he stayed a good hour in his tank, at night, relaxed, and no bleeding.

I'm suppose to give him only one more day of medication and I'm already in touch with a different vet. But I think I won't bring him to the new vet until Wednesday, so the current treatment can be finished and I'll give him more time to see if he start eating his normal food, if he poos, etc.

Let's hope he can get better. He is such sweet turtle, he behaves like a dog, following me around, asking to be picked from the floor, sleeping on my lap, etc... I think I won't have any new pets in my life... This has been quite stressing to me... The very idea of loosing such cool pet.. I really hope he can get better, like, today :(
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:10 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Hi,

New infos...

So, he is still bleeding. But, it has changed a little bit. Here is a photo... https://goo.gl/UuKYE1 - low quality, but it shows that is not pure liquid, and it's not coagulated or dark as before. It's more cotton-like and light pink.

When he moves it dissolves it into the water, turning it somehow pinkish. Here is the photo: https://goo.gl/2T4bt4. I was getting this a couple of days and believing that it was pure liquid, the bleeding. But today I watched with my very eyes what is really happening.

It always happen when he is on water and only when it's dark. That's the only moment of the day that he relax in the water.

Today I finally understood why he is always desperate. He wants to be in the tank with the others. When I put him, both with his brother and with the female, he gets in the shell and starts to swim backwards, while the others or go forward 'sniffing' or just don't care. And this can go for a while (I was monitoring to avoid bites). It doesn't evolve from this (or I didn't stayed time enough?). I didn't see the claws clapping but I could totally understand that this was about to happen. I was keeping them at a little distance, to avoid bites. The female is big (almost 3 kg), can hurt big time. His brother can be very aggressive against him.

Today also I managed to get him interested in his food again. He didn't eat it, but he was indeed interested. Two moments. The first, I dropped lots of food on a table, and I brought him up to the table. He was hooked instantaneously, sniffing around.. He didn't ate it, but he was sniffing. The second time he was in the tank, but I put the pot of food outside the tank, in a way he was directly looking at it. He tried to bit (the tank). They usually do this when they want to eat. However, the actual food inside the water has no chance at all.

As I said, he is always looking for something. Considering that he only stops when together with the others, inside the water, I think this is it. He wants to be with them, that's why he is so active these days. Possibly for a reproductive reason. It's summer time here in Brazil, and it's the time where they are more excited it about it.

Now.. the bleeding. He never put out his penis in his entire life. Maybe this is it? It's hurting somehow? And the blood comes only at night because it's when he finally relax enough to make number 1 or attempt number 2? The kind of blood, light pink, cotton-like, rings any bell to you?

One more thing... The first night at the vet he was scared and he peed in the vet. Pure pee, nothing red or pinkish. So I guess it's not his bladder.

What do you think?

Thanks in advance...
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:51 am   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

A smaller turtle can still bully a larger turtle. He'll also want to fan (take out his penis) in water, and they tend to do it more when younger. So I agree, it sounds like it's an injury to this area.
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:33 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Today he pissed on me. He does number 1 and 2 only in the water as the others. Don't ask me how I taught this, they just learned...

And the piss was entirely white, again, like the one I saw in the vet. So, bladder isn't the case. I also wonder how is the tube to the cloaca.. if it passes by the penis, so, it's not the penis too? I would expect some blood if the piss pass by the penis...

Also, I'm trying to read more about their nutrition and find alternative foods. Today I tried a small piece of papaya, and he ate it. He wants to eat, but not the pellets, his normal food. And the pellets make them poo. That's why I didn't see solid poo in a while.

Is there any other food that also makes then poo really solid, like the pellets?

And, if it's a problem in the penis, what can I do?

Thanks, Steve.
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Post Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:03 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Handling them for an extended period will get them to pee/poop/expose themselves. That's pretty normal and I would say to be expected.

What's his care like now? Does he like white chicken meat? If there's a problem with his penis, it would be up to the vet to examine and decide what to do.
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:17 am   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

I'm just assuming that it is a problem with his penis. I don't exactly know.. I also just noticed that she is way more thinner than his brother.

If it wasn't a physical-internal-something, than it's in his stomach or intestines... I'm starting to think he won't survive... He's very active yet, and I can't make him relax.

I don't trust in the local herp vets. The first one treated him really bad and he came back extremely stressed. We still have the blood test and the ecography to do.. But I don't think it's an infection, the bleeding would be a lot worse. I don't know also if the little he eats is what is causing the bleeding... Still no poo... Where is the food he is eating going?

He bleed the same pattern the last three days. Same quantity. Always at night, when he is in the water and calm enough.

What terrible situation. I think he won't survive.
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:45 pm   Re: Weird blood coming out of cloaca

Is it possible he's fanning, then accidentally kicking/scratching himself there? I agree that this is a very weird situation, I think some of the coagulated blood is what's strangest.
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