Urgent Care :: Weakening Turtle!

[jen188]

Hi everyone,
My baby RES turtle is 1 1/2 inches and I've had him and his companion (same size) for about 6 months. Our water heater keeps the water temperature around mid 70's, while we are in the process of setting up a UVB lighting and heating kit. We have a thermometer, but its a cheap one; I'm thinking about buying a pair of stick-on aquarium thermometers. I use a small sized Zoo Med Turtle Dock, which where the turtle has been staying. I've tried to offer it Reptomin pellets, shrimp, canned tuna, veggies (chopped carrots, romaine and red lettuce), soaked veggies. My turtle hasn't eaten for over a week and he currently lives in a 10 gallon tank with his other turtle companion who has been with him since we bought the pair. The tank used to be near a window, however, we've recently moved the tank away from the drafts and the tank is in our kitchen area. I've read everything in the Basic Care Section and I have tried other forums to see if this is normal before. One other thing I noticed is that he seems to gasp or open his mouth for air occasionally and when he opens his mouth, there's some white stuff (I don't know if that's normal). Thank you guys for any tips you can provide.

[Jeremiah]

Some pictures of your setup would help in this situation, as well as a quick summary on how your other turtle is doing.

The way I'm interpreting your post, it sounds like while you have provided the turtles with an area to dry off, you haven't addressed their need for proper basking conditions once they get to the dry area. This can be a problem, since basking areas that aren't warm enough often cause turtles to stay in the water. What concerns me is that this isn't the case with your weakening turtle. I would consider its behavior an attempt at "excessive" basking, considering that you mentioned it's been staying there for a while--even though it sounds like it didn't have any heat to entice it to stay up there. If it's swimming funny, then the basking could be a symptom of RI. This would also be supported by the presence of what sounds like gaping (the gasping) and accompanying mucous (the white stuff). Oddly enough, though, RI usually only comes around when both basking and water temperatures are too cold, but your water sounds warm enough.

Finally, a side note about the diet--your RES is just a baby, so you don't need to push too many vegetables yet (unless it eats them willingly already, in which case, please keep up the good work!)

Again, any pictures you can get would be a huge help in identifying the problem. If it does turn out to have RI or something similar, please separate the turtles as soon as possible and get the sick one to a qualified reptile vet. This is especially urgent, considering the turtle's size/age.

[steve]

I would also bump up temperatures and try live prey like rosey red minnows. Hold it by the tail and let it wiggle in front of his face.

[Kansasslider]

You need to take your turtle to a Vet. Its swollen eyes are not a good sign. Could be UPI or vitamin A deficiency.Then again I like to side with the air of caution! This is just my opinion. Good luck. And J, great information. Keep it up we need people like yourself here.

[jen188]

My other turtle seems pretty normal, which for him means, very active, food glutton, and for some reason rarely gets out of the water (even in the summertime when I put him out in the sun with his companion, I only ever saw him come out to bask a couple times before he spotted me and jumped back in the water). Also, I just got my heating and lighting set today, however I didn't order the stand because I was hoping either hang it somehow, or use a screen. If I use a screen, would screen made of the same mesh for a summer window screen work with the lamp sitting on top? On a side note. I've tried to find some hardware cloth so I could put the lamp on top of the tank, but I'm not sure where to buy some, since whenever I ask, they just ask if I'm talking about chicken wire (this was at a Lowe's). By the way, my lamps are a 5.0 Reptisun UVB Tropical bulb, and a 50w Turtletuff Splash proof halogen lamp.

Here's a pic of the tank (On the left is the filter, sorry it's hard to see; and the turtle lying on the edge of the dock is the sick one, his companion is the one under the dock):

[jen188]

Quick Note: When the turtles have grown to at least 2 inches, I do plan on upgrading them to a larger tank of some sort, any suggestions?. I'm trying to stay on the cheaper side, with my parents protesting buying another aquarium and refusing to take the little guy to a vet. Another question: if I were to put some hardware cloth for the Zoo Med Mini Deep Dome to sit on above the dock as a basking area (I measured that the dome would sit about 7 inches away from the dock), would it overheat the basking area (the Turtletuff halogen bulb is only 50w and the Reptisun 13 watts)? And would it help if I maybe dissolved a vitamin C and D3 pill (meant for humans) and sprinkled it on some food and try to give it to him?

[Kansasslider]

I don't know what hardware cloth is? Window screen would block 25% of uvb light. Not good! Any top should be at least 1/4" mesh. I used a wire shelf. Steve has suggested cod liver oil for eye problems. Buy some cod liver oil pills and poke a whole in one of them and coat all food you can get it to eat with the oil. Cod liver oil is high in vitamin A. I wouldn't give your turtle any crushed up pills because you don't know how much or what to give it.
This link might help ~ http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebinde ... arrelB.htm

[steve]

Hardware cloth is similar to chicken wire. It's OK to use out of the tank. You can apply the oil directly to the eyelids. Separation is highly recommended at this point. A vet visit as suggested is good advice as well.

[Jeremiah]

Jen--the general rule of thumb for turtles and aquarium size is 1" of shell = 10 gallons of water. In other words, if you are going to wait until you have 2 2" inch turtles to make the move, then you will need (at the very least) a 40 gallon tank--and that's just the first upgrade. Depending on your turtles' gender, each one could get up to a foot long. Of course, bigger is better--as turtles mature, especially RES, they can be prone to attacking and/or harassing each other over territory. If I were in your position, I wouldn't go for another aquarium unless you find a good deal online and/or a pet store (i.e., the dollar-per-gallon sales). Another (slightly uglier) alternative is a Rubbermaid stock tank, and on average they cost less per gallon than standard aquariums (that is, if you buy it in person). The 100 gallon model would keep your turtles happy for a while, just remember to increase your filtration with tank size.

You should call around to find a qualified herp vet who allows payment plans for financially restricted clients. Then, you and your parents could work with the doctor's office to set up reasonable rates of payment.

[Kansasslider]

My tank is great and before you knock stock tanks again you might want to look at it.

[jen188]

Sorry for not posting a reply sooner, I've been cramming for final projects. Anyway, my parents found a strange yet suitable thing that just happens to fit the dome snugly, so my heating an UVB lighting is all set up now. I do wonder if it's normal for my turtles to constantly bask under the lamp whenever we turn it on, especially the sick one (I don't think he's left his basking spot since I setup the lights). It's been one day and the little guy still refuses to eat, although he seems to enjoy his basking area. I'm hesitant to stress him out by force feeding him (I'm not even sure how to), but if he doesn't eat tomorrow, I plan on dry docking and isolating him like the link from Kansasslider suggested and at least applying cod liver oil to his eyes, since he refuses to eat. Thanks for all the tips guys, I really appreciate it! Quick question though, how fast do RES turtles grow? I read that females can grow up to a foot long and males a few inches shorter than that, but I'm not sure how much they should grow in a year. I just want to keep track of their growth, so I know how fast they'd outgrow a new tank.

Here's pics of their tank, and an update on my sick little guy:

[Kansasslider]

Probably seeking the comfort of the heat. What is the water temp? Are your lights on a timer? How long are the lights on during the day? How fast they grow depends but just for an example my female is about 6" long now. She is almost 3.

[Jeremiah]

My tank is great and before you knock stock tanks again you might want to look at it.

I apologize if I offended you, Kansasslider--I myself use stock tanks, and I didn't mean to say anything negative about the final setups that people create with them. I've just always thought that having a stock tank (assuming it isn't surrounded by some kind of frame) doesn't look as "pretty" (for lack of a better word) as a well-filtered aquarium. I was also trying to look at it from Jen's/Jen's family's point of view, assuming that using a stock tank as opposed to an aquarium might seem odd at first.

Oh, and Jen, if you haven't already I would check the temperature at your basking area. If it gets too warm, then the heat may immobilize your turtle. In addition, please make sure that your lights aren't too close to the dock considering how new they are.

[Kansasslider]

Jeremiah,
Apology accepted. When is the last time you have seen a turtle in a glass cage in the wild? I'm not bashing viewing tanks. Because that's what they are. And a lot of people like them and iI get it. But after owning my stock tank for 2 years now I wouldn't trade it for a glass tank unless they could make it round and hold 300 gallons for $250. Ok I lied, I still wouldnt trade it because its more natural to me.There is so much you can do with stock tanks vs glass. I think you and I see eye to eye. What size tank/ tanks do you have? Any pictures?

And for Jens question. Turtles in captivity don't usually get as big as you have read. How is the little one doing?

[Jeremiah]

Jeremiah,
Ok I lied, I still wouldnt trade it because its more natural to me.There is so much you can do with stock tanks vs glass. I think you and I see eye to eye. What size tank/ tanks do you have? Any pictures?

I definitely see what you mean about the more natural features, and I do think the turtles appreciate it more.

Both of my RES are well under 10" at the moment, so I have my female in a 100 gallon stock tank and the male will be upgrading to a 70 gallon stock tank this weekend (I would buy him another 100, but I don't have enough room at the moment). It will look just like the female's setup (normally, it has an MVB):


I apologize for the brief "bunny trail" away from the main topic. I hope your turtle is feeling better, Jen!