Urgent Care :: Koopa won't eat and just sleeps

[dragon_PR]

Hi,

My RES stopped eating on Friday of last week and is just sleeping and basking all day and will barely swim. This morning I tried to encourage it to swim by placing it in the water but it just stayed immobile so pulled it out and placed it back on the platform... I've provided all the details as requested in the sticky below and attached pictures of Koopa that have been uploaded to dropbox. The only Herp Vet that is know of locally is about 2hrs drive and I'd have to take absent leave from work :/ Have to keep calling and leave a voicemail, they only open 3-5pm.

Usual previous behavior was to DIVE quick into the tank when I got home from and expect feeding, but this hasn't been case

I was thinking that maybe the live crickets I fed it last week might of upset it's stomach... Or maybe the basking lamp is a bit too high and not receiving enough heat.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpryf4lvrxe9p ... 114501.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k1im6ff3id9zf ... 114507.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v7a3u5vw0sw93 ... 114516.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwp72rbtd7cjv ... 084640.jpg

I'll upload the pics to a service site when I get home...

How big is your turtle? 5-6"
How long have you had it? 8mo

What is the water temperature? 80°F
Did you use a thermometer? Yes
Are you using a water heater? Yes, Aqueon Water Heater
How much water is in there? about 30G, 55G tank filled bit more than half way
Are you using a water conditioner? Yes, Tetra Aquasafe
Are you using any filtration? Yes, EHEIM 90G canister filter

What is the basking temperature? TBD, need to measure this when I get home
Is there a basking light? Yes, Zoomed Basking light 100w
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Plastic
Is there a UVB light? Yes

What have you been trying to feed it? Sun Dried Shrimp, it would usually devour them quick, Dry meal worms, live crickets. I've tried feeding thin slices of carrots, small pieces of apple and some amazon swords from my Amazon community tank(read they were ok)

When was the last time your turtle ate? Last Friday

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 55G
Is the tank near a window? Yes, no direct sunlight since the blinds are closed
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? no, live alone...

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes, when I was adopting the RES
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes, but wanted to be sure...

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? Not eating, basking a lot... extends the neck completely and high, sometimes just rest the head on the platform, not as active.

[steve]

Can you try some live fish? When he does swim, does it look normal?

[dragon_PR]

Got home to find that the eyes seem swollen, I'll upload pics tomorrow... It opened one eye and the other remained closed, read that was a bad sign I did manage to get a hold of the herp vet and scheduled an appointment for tomorrow in the afternoon. I couldn't go today due to meeting and heavy work load >_< also, didn't want to make the 2hr trip to find that they were full and not taking in new patients. Hopefully it won't anything major! :fingers crossed:

Yes, the swimming looked normal and doing it thing of going under the dock and in front between the glass and legs of the dock. Last time it did it was yesterday, today I didn't sit it do it at all.

Was thinking of getting live fish today but wasn't sure which to get. Petco has some white with black stripes, can't recall the species ATM. Maybe I shouldn't feed it live fish until the vet takes a look. You mention Koopa as a he, is it male?

What other food could I try once he recovers?

[dragon_PR]

Pics from the Dropbox links... thought it would be better this way. Moved the basking lamp to the screen so it could be closer to the basking platform.

[steve]

I'd need to get a good look at the claws, but the tail indicates male. Try leaving the UVB off for a bit, what brand do you have? I'd skip the water conditioner and make sure you use carbon in your filter. For feeder fish, look into rosy red minnows, they should be about 10 for $1. Also try to look for zoo med turtle eye drops.

Have you used that vet before? I'd be a little wary of a vitamin injection, it seems like most of them do it and I'm not sure why.

[dragon_PR]

Thanks! I'll turn off the light when I go down in a bit so It won't turn at 7am when the timer kicks in. My filter is a Enheim Classic 2215, linked below, and it's a bit hard to find the carbon locally. It has 4 stages atm, ceramic cylinders, blue coarse foam, ceramic balls, and white cotton filter pad. It did have a carbon filter as the last stage but read around in some forums that it should be removed after some time. I'll see if Fluval's will fit... The UBV light is a Resptisun 10. I've used the water conditioner before, combination of blocks and liquid, with out issues. Maybe I did something wrong in the last water change.

Don't recall seeing the drops at either Pet Smart or Pet Co, Pet Co is closer and just opened... there are some items that are not brought into Puerto Rico cause they're deemed slow moving :/ and have to order them off Amazon, Ebay or similar sites. I'll check tomorrow on the way back from the vet and see if they carry them here. Also have to stock up on dry shrimp and I'll check if they carry the feeders you recommend.

I've never used this vet and was recommended by my friend that has 2 RES and had a similar issue with one of them. My dogs' vet is very good but I'm not sure if she's experienced with reptiles especially aquatic turtles. I've seen people bring in snakes and she's run checks and such... My friend did mention that the herp vet had injected the turtle with something and prescribed some OTC meds that he got from CVS. Asked a friend that is a Vet Tech and he didn't know of any herp vets on the island and his bosses don't attend aquatic turtles.

BTW he had rescued Koopa from the side of a road in his town and was a bout 2" when I adopted him.

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-2215371-E ... assic+2215

How is his shell coming along?

[steve]

Carbon... buy it in bulk. Check any place that sells anything aquarium related. When you get it, just bag it, rinse it and put it in the canister. Replace every month. I'd skip those white blocks and white turtles as well. I think Aqua Traders ships to PR. They have very good bulk supplies and small brand filters. For you 2215, check this for the recommend layout - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30145#p288933

This is the eye drops: http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptile-T ... B0002DJ0AQ

If it's not an infection, you can apply some cod liver oil for a great source of vitamin D.

Is the Reptisun new? How long have you had it?

Are you doing partial water changes or 100%? I'd be cautious about any injections. Many antibiotics also come in oral form. I'm not sure about OTC meds. Certain dosages can often depend on the size of the turtle. Maybe it was a cream or ointment?

Also, anything used "with out issues" may cause harm later on. Unnecessary chemicals and medications should be avoided. Water conditioners are pretty toxic if you read their safety sheets.

The shell has some slight pyramiding. He might have been growing a bit too fast - 4" in 8 mo. Was he always this dark and brown?

[dragon_PR]

This morning I noticed that he was wet, guess he went into the water to cool down a bit. His eyes were closed

I'll see if I can the carbon filter pads, or do you recommend another type of carbon medium? If so, please link an example. The forum link you gave is basically the instructions for the filter and the carbon is usually placed at the final stage. I've been doing 100% water change since day 1 about once a month, mostly because the filter is around the middle and doesn't pick up water from the bottom of the tank. Sometime take the net and wave around in the bottom to pick up as much of the waste it can. I'm going to check if any local shops has tubing so I can extend the siphon part to around the bottom middle. Is this a good idea?

I've had the reptisun UVB since day one with Koopa, so it'd be around 8mo now. Is there a change frequency to them? Just googled and there are some mixed opinions, some say 6-8mo (I should be replacing now if that's the case) and others 3mo (which I'd be way overdue).

I'll check around for the drops and see if they have them. I'm heading to the vet in the afternoon and see what he says. Will update with his diagnosis and RX that gives... I always ask whats being done to my pets and why when the vet is doing his thing.

Could the growth speed be due to over feeding? I think I've given him good portions, only what I know he ate by seeing what was leftover and reduced to that. Is it too late to correct or help reduce it in any way? Went through old photos and the shells was a light green/brown... is the shell color off?

I'll add photos of this morn and when he was a mere hatchling...

[dragon_PR]

Got home from the vet and it was a complete waste of time and lost half a day at work, it's paid leave but either way I have a load of work to get done... I waited at the office until 6pm, since my friend had mentioned that he sometimes arrived late, and was a no show. A women showed up that apparently is an acquaintance of his receptionist and gave her call. The receptionist relayed that he had suffered a back strain and wasn't going to go to the office. So, that's 4hrs total of travel and 3hrs of waiting lost >_< Anyhow, I stopped at a Pet Smart that was on the way and found the eye drops that were recommended. Should I start applying even though he opened his eyes? I ask cause he was placed in the water when I got home, thought it would be necessary for him to get moistened since he was out of the tank for 8hrs without water or heat also to see how he would react or if by any chance something change. After a few seconds just there immobile and floating and about to hover my hand in the tank to place him on the platform he started to swim around the tank and I was a bit relieved when I saw this going on. Both his eyes were open and seemed to be alert and his normal self.

I did record him swimming so that you can see it, since a vid is better than any description I could give... I'll upload it to youtube and link it here.

Petsmart did not have rosy reds available, sold out, and neither did they have the UVB bulb. They did have carbon available loose/canister and packets, but found them a bit overpriced to me, how much are they usually sold for? And they did have pads but wasn't sure if they would be the right size. Will check online and see if I can find something better priced. Eheim has carbon pads, linked below, for my canister filter but these say to remove after 2wks... I'll check at PetCo tomorrow and see if they have these things available. Hopefully he'll get back to his old self soon and on his own. I'll make the trip to the vet again on Saturday if there is any step back or no further sign of improvements.

Should I do a 100% water change just in case there's something in his current water that might be affecting him? Did an ammonia test with API and it was 0ppm...

http://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Filter-Cla ... bon+filter

Guess its best to go with loose carbon, beads or sticks... is there a how to clean and pack in the forum?

Found this one recommended in this forum, how much should I buy?
http://www.amazon.com/Acurel-LLC-Activa ... ted+carbon

Thanks for the help so far!

[steve]

If your water is only treated with chlorine, you can leave it out for 12-24 hours and it'll dissipate. Overfeeding results is excessively fast growth. Sorry about the vet visit, that is a totally unacceptable way to operate. Yes you can use the eye drops or cod liver oil on the open eye.

I usually get this when it's on sale (about $10 for 40oz - http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-PA0373 ... 0002566WY/) This is the Acurel that was recommend - http://www.amazon.com/Acurel-LLC-Econom ... 000YIWT0M/ and this is one that's in bulk - http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-bulk- ... arbon.html

You could also consider rigging a whole house filter - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33171

So he's not eating anything?

[dragon_PR]

So, if I reduce the amount fed would the shell "repair" since there is some growing left to him?

Applied the drops this morning, one in each eye as the label says. Both eyes are open. He was more active this morning and swam around the tank, hopefully he'll start eating soon. Did place three shrimp, but were ignored... Was given a sample of Exo Terra pellets yesterday and placed it in the tank (forgot to mention this) and he went after one pellet but nothing more.

I'm really trying to avoid to go back to that vet on Saturday since its a long trip and the metro traffic is a very heavy and a bit aggressive...

As for the carbon, I'm going to check if PetCo carries this brand and if so for how much... if they do, I'm going to do a complete water change and cycle for a few hours before reintroducing Koopa back into the tank. If they don't, then I'll order from amazon. Need to see how to pack it and place it the canister...

Also noticed that his red sides of the head are very light, almost faded away, instead of bright red... is this a sign of something?

[steve]

With slower growth, the shell should smoothen out a bit over time and with multiple shedding, but it might not be perfectly smooth.

I don't think the fade has much to do with anything. Have you tried the feeder fish?

[dragon_PR]

thanks! I'll reduce the quantities once he starts to eat. Thought I was feeding the right amount, since I'd adjust depending on much he left or "asked" for more... Should have know earlier and might have been better.

Haven't tried the feeder fish yet. I'm going to Pet Co after work to see if they have rosy reds, if not what other feeder fish can I try? Read guppies are another option...

I called the vet that sees my dogs and the receptionist said that she does attend turtles and that the Dr asked for the food that was being fed to check for ingredients and nutrition, which is a good sign I guess. Plan on taking Koopa tomorrow at 4pm...

[dragon_PR]

Bought rosy reds, 5 of them just to test, and placed them in his tank but he didn't eat them. he did however swim like crazy around the tank, maybe he trying to hunt them down but being the first time he couldn't. Although that should come instinctively, right?

Also bought API active carbon, big carton, and a nylon bag for medium. Ran it through running water and moving it around and ran black for awhile, still need to keep running it to make sure... had to make dinner and feed the dogs. And a moss ball, had bought an artificial one but thought the real thing would be better and Anacharis (3 stems). Left one in his tank and the two are invasive species in my Amazon community tank haha

He is a lot more active than he was over the weekend. Could it have been the UVB being bad or Basking Lamp being too high? This was the only things that were corrected in his tank... Hoping he'll keep recovering and start eating. Local PetCo does not carry Reptisun UVB tube, they only deal in Zilla and wasn't which one would be the equivalent to Reptisun 10.0

Here's the vid of Koopa Swimming: http://youtu.be/m9zKfz5zhBY

[steve]

Rosy reds and minnows are the usual ones. Goldfish are usually considered fatty and prone to parasites, but I guess you can try it if all else fails. How warm was the basking area before? It sounds like you had the UVB for awhile, so I'm not really sure if that was a main factor.