Urgent Care

How big is your turtle? 3 hatchlings 1.5 inches
How long have you had it? 2 weeks

What is the water temperature? 74.5 lowest to 81 highest when basking light is on
Did you use a thermometer? yes
Are you using a water heater? not at the moment, i do have one though but i dont have it on, its too hot in texas
How much water is in there? 70% of a 55 gallon tank
Are you using a water conditioner? no, ive read on this forum that it could actually be harmful?
Are you using any filtration? eheim 2075

What is the basking temperature? 90 - 95
Is there a basking light? yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? zoo med
Is there a UVB light? yes a powersun mvb

What have you been trying to feed it? tuna in the begining to entice, reptomin baby, dried shrimp and carrots
When was the last time your turtle ate? they all ate today

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 55 gallon
Is the tank near a window? no
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? yes

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes many times
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes I have

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? they open and close their mouth (underwater only) kind of like they are chewing something

Hi,

I have been reading this forum on and off for years. I just got 3 RES hatchlings. I have been trying my best to take care of them. They are all very active, they eat everyday, they bask and swim around the tank. Lately I have been noticing that once they are under water they open and close their mouth alot, I don't understand that behavior, I am not sure if they were doing this 2 weeks ago when I got them I just recently noticed this. Is this normal behavior? They do not have swollen or red eyes, they do not have any mucus, no bubbles coming from them, they dont cough, they defecate properly.. I tried searching the forum but couldnt really find anything that would lead it to being RI but this opening and closing of mouth under water. they swim properly no loops or anything. Maybe its something baby RES do? They do not at all open or close their mouth when they are out of the water, it's just under water only.

I will go to a vet if I have to, I am just trying to get an idea if this is a potential dangerous situation.

All replies would be greatly appreciated
Thank you

Have you tested the water in your tank? pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Is there chlorine or chloramine in your source water? Are you filtering your source water before adding it to you tank? Are you adding anything to the water? Is your source water exceptionally "hard" or "soft"? Has your source water been "softened"? Are you using carbon in your Eheim filter; if so are you replacing it at the recommended intervals? Are you using Purigen? If so are checking it regularly to determine if it needs to be regenerated? Is there a good flow of water in the tank, and lots of surface agitation? This is all basic water maintenance to insure that your water doesn't cause problems.

My turtles yawn occasionally, both in and out of the water. I've never noticed what you describe, however, except when they are actually eating. Although one of mine did something similar when he spent most of a day choking on a baby otocinclus he ate. He also pushed the sides of mouth while opened with his front claws, I presume trying to clear the fish stuck in his throat. Are there any items in your tank small enough to get in their mouths but big enough to get stuck in their throats?

I have not tested the water in my tank but i just did a full water change two days ago and I keep changing 1/3rd of the water every week. there is nothing small in my tank i have river rocks as substrate. I am going to test the water today. Im not using carbon/purigen in my filter

I just found another thread http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14057
Here they say that it's okay? that's how they smell? I know when they are not in the water i can see their neck fill up like a balloon when they breathe.

It's reassuring to know it *might just be* something some turtles do and nothing to get concerned about. If they're not showing other signs of distress then just keep observing.

Testing your water is still important, so it's good you plan to do that. I think turtles are fairly robust and tolerant of less than perfect water, even so it's a good idea for their overall health to provide as good water as possible under your circumstances. Frequent water changes are excellent since that's the primary way to get nitrates out of the tank, presuming it's cycling properly. Live plants will remove nitrates, too, but turtles tend to eat them or chew them to shreds. You also need to know what's in your source water, primarily what's being used to disinfect it: chlorine or chloramine; both of these chemicals are detrimental to the long term health of your turtles, although they won't necessarily cause any immediate or obvious symptoms of anything. Depending on the concentration they may also kill the nitrifying bacteria in your filter which will prevent your tank from cycling. Both of these chemicals can be removed with correct filtration. Chlorine can even be removed simply by letting the water sit in an open bucket for a few hours since it will evaporate. Agitating the water will speed up the evaporation. Chloramine is more difficult to get out of the water; it will not evaporate and is very persistent.

There are chemicals you can purchase at pet stores to remove both chlorine and chloramine from your water. My personal preference is to remove them by filtration prior to adding fresh water to my aquarium. I don't feel comfortable creating a huge chemical reaction in my aquarium, although lots of people use these chemicals with apparent satisfaction. And they certainly are easier and cheaper than filtering your water and buying replacement filters every few hundred gallons, etc.

Finally, you also need to know if there is anything else in your source water you should be concerned about; for example: fluoride; lead; "sediment"; rust; whether the water has been treated with phosphates, to reduce "hardness"; and, if you're not using municipally treated water whether it contains parasites or other pathogens. The jury is still out on fluorides, but the concentration in municipal tap water is much higher than what occurs naturally in fresh water environments and is usually sodium flouride rather than naturally occurring calcium fluoride. Fluoride is very difficult to get out of water and most people don't worry about it.

If you live in a municipality that treats the water, you can get a report on what's in your tap water. If you live in a rural area you can have your well water tested; usually the county will do this for you.

I should mention one other thing while I'm at it. Fresh water tropical fish are much more sensitive to water quality than RES. If the fish remain active and healthy in the same water you use for the turtles, then the water is more than satisfactory for the turtles. You don't need to keep the fish in the same tank with the turtles, just use the same water and duplicate filter system. If the fish start to deteriorate, then you know something is wrong with the water and you can deal with it before it affects the turtles. Don't use gold fish for this comparison, though; they are just as tough and hardy as the RES and will survive in water that would kill most other tropical fish. If you wanted to, you could raise "feed stock" in your fish tank: ie guppies, minnows or other small, cheap fish. Just a thought.

I just saw at petco that they test your water for ammonia, ph, nitrates, nitrets for free! plus I called around places and found a vet that knows about red ear sliders and does initial consultations for free. I got 10 minows and put them in my tank, my turtles are pretty active and the one in particular that i thought was sick was the fastest to chase them around and kill one.. so I dont really think they are sick its maybe just something that little turtles do. Anyway, im still gonna go to the vet on saturday and lets see what happens!

Thank you so much for your replies I really appreciate it.

The behavior is not alarming but just keep an eye on it and for other symptoms. I would test the water as amwassil suggested. Use carbon to remove chlorine and chloramine rather than other chemicals. In addition, Purigen will help with water quality.

Yes I am keeping an eye on them. Hopefully it's nothing. they will all go to the vet on saturday anyway, so i'll let you guys know what's up. Thanks

Just did a water test results are as follows:

Ph 8.0
Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrites it's either 2 ppm or 5 ppm I'm not sure because the colors for both resemble
Nitrate 5 ppm

How does that look? I've read on this site that droping the PH a little under 7 could be beneficial, if so I will try to do that

It's been 5 days since i put the water in and then day before yesterday I put 12 minows they killed 2 the first hour, today i came back from work and 4 are missing, I am not going to get anymore or they are going to get fat!

I think your pH is a bit high; between 6-7 should be OK. There are "buffering" products you can buy at your LFS to lower the pH.

Ammonia is normally measured in mg/L (milligrams per liter). So I don't know what "0.25 ppm" translates to in mg/L. Are you reading your colour chart correctly? However, you should have 0 ammonia by any measure. Ammonia is poison and your filter MUST take it out either with purigen, activated carbon and/or nitrifying bacteria. Detectable ammonia indicates water problems that need to be fixed pronto.

Again, nitrite and nitrate are normally measured in mg/L, so I don't know what your "ppm" numbers actually mean. However, you should have VERY little or NO nitrite. Nitrate is the end product of nitrifying bacteria and the primary means of getting rid of it is by water changes. Nitrates won't hurt your turtles, but high levels will provide nutrition for algae.

You don't mention anything about your source water. Chlorine/chloramine? Are you getting rid of those somehow? Also, tap water often contains ammonia, so if you're using unfiltered tap water and some sort of "conditioning chemical" the water might be the source of your ammonia (in addition to the breakdown of turtle waste).

I suggest you put some purigen sachets in your filter. The reason I suggest purigen is that it can be reused many times, whereas activated carbon can not (well, not practically for the average home aquarist). Also, once carbon is saturated it releases whatever it took out of the water back into the water. So you have to replace it frequently. I've heard numbers from a few days to a couple of weeks, depending on the quantity, for replacing carbon to avoid releasing poison back into your water. Purigen doesn't do that; when it's saturated it stops removing stuff from the water, but does not release anything back into it. Purigen is expensive, but because it can be reused many times in the long term it's way less expensive than carbon. IMHO.

Purigen is not effective for chlorine and chloramines and a lot of us are using it with carbon. Is there any bio media in the filter?

Thank you for replying

ppm = parts per million
I found an online ppm to mg/l calculator so here are the conversions:

ammonia = 0.249 mg/l
nitrites = 1.9 or 4.9 mg/l
nitrates = 4.8 mg/l

So are these levels bad?

I will get something tomorrow to lower the pH.
I am not sure about chlorine i did not test that but I guess I will get something for that tomorrow.

My filter media is what came with the eheim 2075, it has a sponge, filter floss, 2 baskets of biological media & 2 baskets of mechanical media. So I should add purigen? I really dont want to use carbon. If I add purigen wouldn't that do the trick?

I'm not that knowledgeable about water readings but I try to keep up with standard water maintenance practices. If I had to choose between Purigen and carbon, I would get carbon. Any reason you don't want to use carbon? You can look into VeipaCray's water change idea which uses carbon externally.

carbon makes the water kind of cloudy and its kind of expensive but if that's the way to go then im all for it. I will check out his thread i saw the one with filter configurations is that the one you refering to?

Urgent Care :: Hatchlings open and close their mouth underwater

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