Urgent Care :: New owners in need of help

[EJ07]

My girlfriend bought a RES while at the local fair about a month to go and we really had no idea what we were getting into. Since then we have learned a lot, or tried to, about our turtle and how to care for him. We need some coherent advice from people who actually know and care for this breed of turtle. We have received so much conflicting advice – from different pet stores and especially from the “turtle breeder” (I won’t get into my issues with the him).

Our main problem is our turtle is not doing well and hasn’t really eaten anything substantial in weeks. lately has been very lethargic. Details below; but as a side note when we first put him in his new tank he was very active and every time someone entered the room he would dive off his rock and start swimming – that stopped but I thought he was originally scared and stressed in a new environment.


Our habitat is not perfect but we are working on it and trying our best to learn what is needed or preferred. We have the basics down

How big is your turtle? Under 2” – obviously after the fact we found out this is illegal.
How long have you had it? Going on a month

What is the water temperature? It can very between 70-80 and is usually more towards 80
Did you use a thermometer? Top Fin® Floating Glass Aquarium Thermometer
Are you using a water heater? No, I had bought a submersible heater and then the petsmart guy said that our turtle didn’t need it.

How much water is in there? Have the tank ¼ full (29 gallon tank so approx 7 gallons – again advice from pet store people)
Are you using a water conditioner? Yes, Zoo Med ReptiSafe Instant Terrarium Water Conditioners
Are you using any filtration? Yes, it is a tetra filter or reptofilter, not sure the exact model but its 125 gph and it’s a bulky filter – 1 pet store originally recommended bulky filter but another said this one was ok.

What is the basking temperature? I’m not sure – we only have the above thermometer thermostat in room is at 70 and we have a space heater by him for at nights
Is there a basking light? Originally used 25W when tank was half full and then guy at pet store said drop water and go with 75W
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes floating dock
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Zoo Med Turtle Docks
Is there a UVB light? Yes I believe its Zilla brand, not sure specs

What have you been trying to feed it?
We have tried to feed him all of the following : turtle pellets(also tried coated in vitamin D powder), freeze dried crickets, romaine lettuce, carrot shavings, small fish (guy at pet store recommended), canned tuna fish, and small piece of fresh salmon, and lastly the container of multi-color food the jerk at the fair gave with the turtle (I am convinced it is ground up dog food). We have tried many different things to entice eating – adding tuna fish water, hand feeding, and even tried using a separate small tank with the recommended amt. of water for a feeding tank.

When was the last time your turtle ate? A few nibbles last night when we tried to hand feed him pellets

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 29 Gallon
Is the tank near a window? Yes 2 although they do not get a lot of sunlight due to house next door being pretty close (We live in a city)
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? Depends, it is in our dinning room which is a passthrough from kitchen to living room. – Only my girlfriend and I live there and we both work 40-50 hrs a week.

Have you read the Basic Care section? Yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? mentioned above.

I’m afraid he has gotten a RI and am having trouble finding a vet in the area. I’ve used all links on site and closest one to me is like an hr and a half. What is best course of action in the short term. I'm trying to find some vet in the closer area and plan to start calling some. Any other recommendations?

I have just uploaded a few pics quick and album is public at link below.


http://s1311.photobucket.com/albums/s663/ejm0717/

[steve]

Does he have a hard time opening his eyes? Have you tried any live feeder fish? What are his other symptoms that make you think this is RI?

Try to keep the water near a consistent 80F. You will need a submersible heater to accomplish that. Skip the water conditioner for now. Replace that filter media so it has carbon in it (which will remove chlorine/chloramines).

[EJ07]

It's hard to tell if he does because, as of lately, he has not been opening them much. He seems to just lay around on his dock either on the ledge in the water or on top where it is dry. When we took him out last night to feed him it seemed like he could open them but didn't really want to keep them open.

We have tried live feeder fish - unfortunately 4 out of 5 died at the hands of our filter. The other is still alive in the tank with him (over week now).

Ok we do have a submersible heater - guy at one of the pet stores said it was not needed. It does not have a thermostat but says it keeps it at 78.

The filter is actually a repto filter item 26038 which I thought had a carbon media. The packet we put in the filter definitely had what looked like carbon (small black beads) enclosed in a white cloth type of bag.

Other symptom wise - I don't really have any - maybe I jumped to conclusions on the RI.

We just got home and he actually started swimming but that only lasted a minute at most. He seems to be very weak. While we had him out last night, he was struggling to get his front hands/legs out in front of him. It seemed like he was using more of his elbows.

[steve]

Hold the fish by the tail and let it wiggle in front of his face... then let him take a bite.

[EJ07]

No luck, tried several times. He wants nothing to do with that fish and almost seems afraid of it. I heard somewhere about cod liver oil. Picked some up, but have not used any. Would this help at all?

[steve]

Cod liver oil will help with swollen eyelids due to a vitamin a deficiency. It won't help with anything else. Try using some earthworms or meal worms but don't give up on the fish.

[EJ07]

Ok, we tried the earthworm and he wasn't interested. Still have been trying the fish, but he won't go for it. He does keep his eyes closed alot and when he does open them, its not for long (He will even swim/float around with them closed) Do you think I should use the cod liver oil? Also is there anything we could use to force feed him? I have an eye dropper and thought if I should crush up some pellets and mix with water or anything like that?

Thanks Steve for all your advice, we really appreciate it, and hopefully our turtle will too.

[EJ07]

Work is a little slow today so I've had some more time to research and I've read about recommendations to soak in pedialyte to get some electrolytes into her system. Would this be a better option than trying to force feed?

[steve]

I have not tried force feeding, and would not try it with out guidance from a vet. Cod liver oil is worth a try. Pedialyte is worth a try... leave some pellet crumbs in there and hopefully he can take some in.

[EJ07]

Sorry for the long post, but thank you to anyone who reads it.

Ok I'm back with an update and am seeking any opinions you guys may have. It's been about 2 weeks since my last post. Since then I have consistently tried to feed him the feeder fish, earthworms, and an array of the other suggested items with no luck. He almost went after the fish one day as I was holding it in front of him, or at least he actually looked interested instead of scared. The fish flapped and hit him in the face and that was the end of that.

I have been trying to regularly add the cod liver oil to his eyes for approx. 15 mins. I'll let him in the separate tank while I do this and then rinse it off so he can open his eyes. I'll then let him soak in the pedialyte for about 20 mins. I also have been crushing up pellets, almost to make a dust and add it to the pedialyte in hopes he may ingest some. I also leave some small pieces in. I usually try to do this on a somewhat regular basis. I think I was able to do it every few days. I can say that I personally have not seen him eat really anything in the past two weeks. I know he def. ate one pellet I left in the shallow water on his dock. I left him alone for a few minutes and it was gone. That has not worked since.

In the meantime I have been in touch with a local rescue and this guy is currently taking care of 15 res and an assortment of other reptiles. In talking with him I mentioned where I had gotten my turtle from and he happens to know the fair guy I got him from. He said the guy gets them in a group of like 500 and then sells them at the local fairs. I'm pretty certain now that mine is one of the runts. In talking with the rescue guy we decided it would be best for me to forgo any vet visit and continue what I am doing. His thinking is that the turtle is so small that 1. The vet won't be able to give him any kind of shot or anything of that sort and 2. The stress of an hr plus road trip just to get to the vet and then the actual visit itself will simply be too much stress on the little guy.

That being said I am going to try my best to help get him healthier. His activity is still slim to none and he is not eating much. Although I must say that between work and studying for a huge exam I have at the end of the month - I am probably away from the house an average of at least 12 hrs a day. When I am home, I don't see him swim or barely move for that matter. After the pedialyte soaks and cod liver oil he does seem to be alert with wide open eyes and aware of me and follow me with his eyes.

I will be working less this coming week and want to dedicate considerably more time to him and hopefully do the pedialyte soaks and cod liver twice a day and continue to try to get him to eat. Is there any other recommendations or opinions anyone may have?

I did purchase a syringe; but am undecided if that will be beneficial for him. I feel he is just extremely stressed for some reason and don't want to add to it. I also plan to run the filter for only a few hrs a day. He is so tiny that sometimes he will get caught in the current of the filter and I have to help him get away.

[penelope]

I think the stress of driving to a vet is the least concern.
As for what a vet can do, I don't buy the rescuer's comment. You won't know unless you call the vet and ask if he or she cares for turtles the size of yours.
After 19 days with zero improvement - not good.
Getting stuck in the filter current - not good.
Turning off the filter and leaving in dirty water - not good.
Refusing to eat after all this time - not good.
You can try dry-docking him, but it a temporary measure until you call a vet, not a cure
Like I mentioned, after 19 days and only getting worse, I guess its time to make a decision: Call the vet or not?
Taking care of a super-sick turtle takes ongoing care on a regular schedule (i.e., if you go to a vet and they prescribe antibiotic treatment, you are looking at minimum 20-30 days of giving the medication at about the same time every other day).
Trust me, its worth it

[steve]

How active is he? I would continue with the soaks, and I'm not sure if a vet visit will help but it's still worth a try. Is your weather still warm outside? I would take him out and let him get some sun (while under supervision).

[EJ07]

As I thought about it more I figured I will call the vet and try to get him in. If anything they tell me they can't do much and just keep doing what I'm doing; but at least I'll know for sure.

It's starting to get cooler here. It was about 61 today. It is supposed to be in the 70s this week. I warmed his water up and took him outside today for his pedialyte soak and he was really active. Although it looked like his eyes were slightly irritated as he kept trying to rub them. I had him outside in his container for about 30 mins and then brought him back in. While inside the house he was still active in his little container. Once I put him back in his tank, he swam a little and then went right back to basking.

It's hard to say how active he has been. I only see him for about 2 - 4 hours a day with his lights on during the week and his activity is minimal at best. I do notice that whenever I catch him swimming and try and watch him - he stops and will just float around.

[steve]

Has his condition been the same the last few weeks or has it progressively gotten worse? I would try the live prey again and some gammarus. What kind of fish did you try?

[EJ07]

At times he does seem to be doing better, but overall I would say he is worse than he was before. The feeder fish were some kind of red minnows? or rose minnows , I can't remember. As far as the gammarus - I'll pick some of them up. I did make an appt. for the vet this afternoon. I asked if they would treat turtles that small and of course the lady said that the Vet would have to see him. We'll see how it goes and I'll update later.