Urgent Care :: Red Sores on skin - have been to vet

[nakochan]

Hello fellow turtle lovers,

One of my turtles, Columbia, is showing very red sores all over her skin, especially under her back legs and shell. When I noticed this happening (within 3-4 days), I took her to the local herp vet who, after a swab culture, determined that she had "some kind of bacterial infection". He gave her an antibiotic shot and gave me some medicated wipes to swab her with x2 a day. I was very worried the whole time that she has septicemia, and he told me that his worry was the same thing (um, isn't he the one who's supposed to figure out if she really has it or not?). The visit was just this past Sunday, and it's Tuesday night. I know I probably shouldn't expect good results this fast, but this vet (it was my first visit, and he was the one closest to where I live) just seemed so VAGUE about what she could have. I took some pictures of her sores for you guys to see.

I was a bit puzzled about the medicated wipes I was given... they're meant for wiping skin conditions on dogs and cats (Douxo Chlorhexidine 3% PS Pads). I'm not sure if they will work so well on turtles. In the days before I went to see the vet, I looked up info online and was starting to swab her sores with diluted betadine. I swear it was helping a little, as some bleeding from one side of her scutes seemed to stop and clear up. But I stopped that routine when I went to the vet and he told me that betadine wasn't appropriate for turtles.

I am really, sincerely hoping that this is just a bad skin bacterial infection and NOT septicemia... but I'm getting more and more anxious. She's showing more red in more spots daily, and today to my horror I noticed that her eyelids too were showing tiny streaks of red. I blame myself for her getting sick- I took her out one day into the garden for some sunshine and to explore a bit, and she got into the brick edging of our flower bed and scraped off some plastron scutes that were starting to come off but weren't quite ready to yet. I think she might have gotten an infection from that. Can you guys help out in any way- have you seen this before, or do you think my betadine treatment could be more effective...? Or should I just be ready to accept that she really might have that terrible blood poisoning? Thanks.

Obligatory info:

How big is your turtle? About 8 inches from tail to nose.
How long have you had it? 6 years.

What is the water temperature? 78F.
Did you use a thermometer? No, my heater is one set at 78.
Are you using a water heater? Yes.
How much water is in there? 50 gallons.
Are you using a water conditioner? No.
Are you using any filtration? Yes.

What is the basking temperature? ... Not sure?
Is there a basking light? Yes.
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes.
What kind is it or what is it made out of? Floating cork.
Is there a UVB light? Yes.

What have you been trying to feed it? Reptomin pellets, carrot, dark leaf lettuce, bok choy, collard greens
When was the last time your turtle ate? This afternoon.

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? It's an 80 gallon tank.
Is the tank near a window? Yes.
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? No.

Have you read the Basic Care section? No... couldn't find it?
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? Yes, but the pictures don't look like what my turtle has.

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? No.

==============================================
Pictures:


bleeding on the side, in between scutes


sores, with her right leg out


sores, with her leg in

The lining of where her skin meets shell also has tints of red/pink, mostly all around. But I didn't want to stress her more with pictures.

[steve]

A commercial type of Chlorhexidine, called Hibiclens, is sometimes recommended for minor injuries and cuts. Betadine is good too, though some think Hibiclens is more effective.

Anyway, I think you are right to be concerned. I'm not sure if it is septicima, though the bleeding from the skin and seams is unusual and I would consider serious.

If everything was healing, it could be that she sustained injuries while outside? How long ago was she out? Is she with another turtle?

You might also want to get a second online opinion... tortoisetrustforum.org and turtleforum.com are very good.

[nakochan]

Thanks for the reply, steve.

It's not actual bleeding... I haven't found drops of blood anywhere, and when I wipe the sores red doesn't come off onto the pads. It's more like just... blood under the skin/in veins, or maybe bad bruising? I really don't know, but the garden incident was about 2 and a half weeks ago, and she wasn't injured anywhere that I could see. Just the scutes that were already shedding got pulled off by her pulling herself over some bricks. I didn't notice the sores until about a week and a half ago, but admittedly I hadn't been scrutinizing my turtles all that closely since they were all eating and swimming just fine.

She's by herself right now, actually. She normally doesn't share a tank with my other two turtles, who live in a giant one separated into 2 sides, so this infection isn't due to them. :/

I'll get a second look from the people at the forums you mentioned too, thank you.

[steve]

I was thinking that they might have caused an injury. In terms of infection, turtles live in water with their waste, so I'm not surprised the vet picked something up. A blood test would be more accurate in diagnosing septicemia. The presence of blood at the seams would be more of a concern to me since it's harder to diagnose what's going on. How bad was the scrape?

[nakochan]

The scrape wasn't bad at all- in fact when I picked her up you wouldn't have been able to tell, except that bits of the scutes that came off were still hanging on a bit. The scutes themselves were pretty opaque and what was exposed wasn't bone.

I'm going back to the vet on Saturday for a follow-up; if she doesn't start showing signs of improvement I may ask for another antibiotics injection, and will definitely ask for a blood sample to be taken, if possible.

[Love of Animals]

Try to look at the forums Steve mentioned. I know turtleforum.com and it is a great site for medical advice. Good luck at the vet. I also recommend a second opinion.

[nakochan]

For Steve's benefit, since I already posted on the other forum:

I went to the second vet today, and this lady seemed much more knowledgeable. At any rate she at least bothered to take a tiny flashlight to look into all of Columbia's crevices, opened her mouth to look inside (said she looked a little pale and anemic), and asked detailed questions about setup, temperature and diet. She told me not to panic, as it was likely a bacterial infection that WANTED to turn septic but we would pursue a course of meds and preventatives best suited to make my turtle healthy again. So here's what I ended up with:

- Blood was drawn for a profile (CBC?)
- Silvadene cream to be rubbed daily onto any redness and sores with a Q-tip. Diluted 1:3 betadine was also deemed okay if I preferred to swab that on the sores/redness instead.
- Switch to a smaller tank setup for now (the vet said she would see if we could get away without dry docking, at least for the next 2 weeks), keep basking heat at around 95-100F, keep a UV light on and do full water changes every other day. Add 1 tsp of chlorhexadine solution/gallon of water to the tank. (The vet originally thought to have me soak Columbia in a warm chlorhexidine solution for an hour every day, and then changed her mind.)
- Amikacin injection, 0.05cc, every 72 hours.
- Ceftzadime injection, 0.1cc, every 48 hours.

They'll call me when they have the blood work results. The vet was surprised at how tolerating my turtle was- couldn't get her to open her mouth, had to poke a little stick into the side to get her to bite on it.

When I got home, I noticed that the red spots on Columbia were more pronounced than they looked in the vet's office. Do you guys think it's a reaction to the injections (we had the first set done at the vet's so they could show me how) or a reaction to stress, maybe? And do we have any pictures of the proper way to inject into a turtle's front legs? I mean, I got shown, but I would like reference pictures or something just to have for peace of mind, or if I panic and forget.

So that's that... I'm hoping this will have good results. I have a follow-up in 2 weeks.

[Love of Animals]

Sounds like she has the best of care. That's great!

[steve]

Thanks for the update. It never hurts to get a second opinion online or IRL. The new vet sounds terrific. Did she draw blood around the tail area? If possible, do the next injection in front of the vet... that's what they're there for There are pics online -- I don't recall where, but I'd follow what the vet says. Not every situation is the same and you'll want to follow her course of treatment.

The change in color could be stress, meds, dryness, different lighting... I wouldn't worry about it. She's in the right hands and I'm sure will do great.

[nakochan]

I'm keeping a close watch on Columbia, and I called the vet today because I grew concerned with her eyes. I can see that tiny red spots are forming on her eyelids, and in the tank she's keeping her eyes closed a lot. It also looks a bit like her right eyelid is getting puffy. The vet was out of the office today (she has two practices and is part-time at each) but will be back tomorrow. Blood test results are also back, so I will be told about those as well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for not-so-bad news....

[nakochan]

The vet called about the bloodwork today. I'm a bit confused, because it seemed like results were vague about just WHAT she had:


- Normal white cell blood count (does that mean there's no infection??? Huh? Shouldn't her WBC count be higher if she's fighting off an infection?)
- Elevated liver levels, which my vet said was not that alarming to her, quote "Some people feel it's a concern, some people don't..."
- Anemic


So we are staying on the course of antibiotics and injections previously prescribed, since they are broad spectrum, and the vet told me to bring her in next Thursday for an iron injection and de-wormer (in case the cause of this is parasitic). I asked her, "So does this rule out scepticemia?" and she said there really isn't a way to rule it out. We will just have to stay on these antibiotics and see...


Another thing I worry about is how much this must be stressing my turtle. She's really very docile and forgiving, but I mapped out her injections, and she has injections ALMOST every day, either 1 or 2. There's about 2 days in the week where I leave her alone and don't poke her. I'm afraid that the stress will just weaken her immune system and ability to fight off whatever this infection is.


What do you guys think? :/

[dango]

I've noticed that our turtle also has those red sores too!

We're new to this turtle thing and we're a bit worried.. So right now, is your turtle okay??

[steve]

This is an old topic, so you might want to start a new one. I do think there's been a more recent thread about something similar. Welcome to the site!