Urgent Care :: This cannot be good; foaming at the mouth =(

[Spike 7.62]

How big is your turtle?
2"x2"

How long have you had it?
I've known it since July, been care taker since Sept

What is the water temperature?
85 F

Did you use a thermometer?
Yes

Are you using a water heater?
Yes

How much water is in there?
40g tank, 6 inches from top

Are you using a water conditioner?
no

Are you using any filtration?
Yes, 90g worth of filtration

What is the basking temperature?
92-98 F during the day, heat lamp goes out at night, nighttime temps around 62-67 F

Is there a basking light?
Yes, UV and heat put out

Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on?
Yes, turtle dock suctioned to side of tank

What kind is it or what is it made out of?
hard plastic

Is there a UVB light?
Yes

What have you been trying to feed it?
Reptomin pellets, shrimp pellets, shrimp brine

When was the last time your turtle ate?
nibbled at a single pellet today, last ate day before yesterday

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure?
40g, currently quarantined in a smaller encloser

Is the tank near a window?
Yes, curtain remains closed at all times

Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity?
moderate to low activity

Have you read the Basic Care section?
Yes

Have you searched the forums for similar situations?
Yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?
Foaming at the mouth, does not like to swim, lack of appetite, makes sucking/suction noise.

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So here's the situation...

I am taking care of a small Red Belly Cooter who shares a tank with 2 Eastern Painted turtles. Over just the past 4 days I have noticed he spends more and more time on the turtle dock, and less time in the water. I have to put the pellets directly in front of him for him to eat, and even so, he will only eat one, or perhaps just take a nibble. Yesterday he did not eat at all. Today I noticed a huge amount of foam at his mouth! I don't know exactly what it is, but it sure doesn't look good. I have seperated him in a smaller container where he has a basking rock, water and a heat/UV lamp to keep warm. I have pellets and shrimp in the container for him to eat if he gets hungry.

While he doesn't like to swim, he is still active. In fact, on the basking rock he was in the superman position, and still squirms nonstop when I pick him up. Sometimes he will emit a sqeaking noise, I suppose that's from whatever is in his mouth/nose.

The herp vet near me won't be back for business until after new years, and doesn't see small turtles anyway. I am hoping that he will eat, stay warm and recover.

Does the night time temperature hurt him? The water stays at a constant 85-ish F, but I turn the heat lamp off at night and it cools to the mid sixties. Would that explain the foam?

Here are pics I took immediatly after discovering his condition...




It doesn't look good Any ideas on causes and/or treatment?

Thanks in advance,
-Spike

[blackforces get you]

okay spike this is what ive found. i went on the physical condition part of this site. hope this helps:

Mouth Rot / Stomatitis
Ulceration of the exterior or interior of mouth area, including the tongue and throat, is a clear indication of mouth rot. Visual signs may be in the form of respiratory changes, such as excessive coughing or mucus and the presence of blood around the mouth. The appearance of blisters and a yellow or white substance around this area may also develop. This condition can be either bacterial or viral in nature. It is highly contagious and needs to be treated by a veterinarian immediately; otherwise stomatitis may result in a fatal consequence.

and this is also what i found:

Mouth rot is an infection in the mouth of the turtle, either bacterial or viral. Some cases are the results of herpes-type viral infections, whereas others are, but not limited to, clamydial and E. coli organisms. Untreated, it can be fatal. It should be noted that the viral form is highly contagious. Stomatitis can also be found in the throat. If your turtle is spitting or coughing up material, have the material tested for Stomatitis as well as a general run-through of lab work.

For Bacterial Stomatitis, once identified, the area should be swabbed daily with an iodine or betadine solution. Some gentle debriding of the area might be needed. Keep turtle in a clean environment and see veterinary assistance as soon after first discovering this condition.

For Viral Stomatitis, it is difficult to detect viral stomatitis and equally difficult to treat, although not impossible to cure. Most cases, however, are fatal. The turtle should be taken to a vet immediately for treatment

hopefully this helps. and good luck and that baby painted

[Spike 7.62]

Oh man, mouth rot sounds horrible

I'll look up herp vets, I'd be willing to go anywhere in NJ for one who will treat a 2 inch turtle. I wouldn't be able to diagnose it myself.

Thank You.

-Spike

[gwennie]

Err. I thought ideal water temps are from 76-about 80 F and your basking should be around 90 F to be ideal.

I think your temps are really warm!

You should definitely take him into the vet though, please let us know what they say.

Keeping your turt in my thoughts!

[zoologist]

he should be keeping them warmer right now since the turtle is sick.

here is a good vet in NYC
http://avianandexoticvets.com/?gclid=CJ ... nAod6DXHqg

[bradmeisel]

its not RI? I definitely think a herp vet visit is a great idea. Good luck with the little guy. I wish you both the best.

[Spike 7.62]

Here's an update as of 1514 hrs today...

He has eaten some of the pellets and shrimp, it's hard to tell how many because there are a lot of shredded remains. I haven't seen the mouth foam since yesterday when I first encountered it. He has not made the squelching noise since yesterday either. I just changed the water and I'm about to offer food again. To keep him warm, I left the basking light on all night, I hope he got some sleep. He could use the extra UV to shed too.

He needs to be diagnosed though =/

-Spike

[gwennie]

I agree with keeping unwell turts a bit warmer than healthy turts, but it still seems too hot to me.

Are there any other vets in the area that can see him until the other one is back? If it's bacterial, 2.5 weeks is a long time to let it go untreated. Turtles usually don't show any signs of illness till they're already pretty sick, so he could've been sick for a while w/o you seeing it.

[freshprince2146]

So spike how is the lil guy doing now?

[marisa]

The description and pics all point to an RI. If he's still foaming at the mouth (mucus), I'd take a q-tip and gently try remove some of it to make it easier to eat and breathe.

He needs to be kept warm and separate from the others if you haven't done so already. An 85F water temp is a bit warm (should be more like 82 - 83F), but I won't quibble about a few extra degrees if it's temporary and he's eating. That's a big temp drop in the basking area temp at night, though---the ambient air temp would be getting quite cool as well. At the very least, I'd cover the tank at night to trap in some of the warmth from the heated water.

Get him to a herp vet ASAP.

[TurtleLover_S&B]

I definitely agreewith marisa! It does seem like an RI, and the temp. do seem a little warm! But you should probably follow her advice. She give great advice!

[Spike 7.62]

Update-

He has made a full recovery. I'll post some pics of him swimming around and munching on underwater plants. He is now back to his full personality (glutton) and eats, basks and swims like normal. I notice that he hasn't grown though, perhaps a side-effect of being sick. For a while he would just sit on the dock. I'll admit, I never took him to a vet, but home remedies and close observation seem to have worked.. this time.

Thanks everyone for the replies and kind thoughts!

-Spike

[worldpeace]

I'm glad he made it even though, i think, the odds were against him. That's a strong little turtle.

[bradmeisel]

I am very glad he pulled thorugh. Maybe he has some of the courage of his dad

[freshprince2146]

wow spike thats great!!