Urgent Care :: Milky water, smelly tank...please help

[Crisg]

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How big is your turtle? 2.5 inches
How long have you had it? 1 year

What is the water temperature? 75 F
Did you use a thermometer? Yes
Are you using a water heater? Yes
How much water is in there? 7.5 gallons
Are you using a water conditioner? Yes
Are you using any filtration? Yes

What is the basking temperature? Not sure
Is there a basking light? Yes
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on? Yes
What kind is it or what is it made out of? floating
Is there a UVB light? Yes

What have you been trying to feed it? Pellets, banana, fish
When was the last time your turtle ate? today

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure? 10 gallon tank
Is the tank near a window? yes
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity? moderate

Have you read the Basic Care section? yes
Have you searched the forums for similar situations? yes

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms? No

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Hi everyone.

Our turtles are pretty healthy however all of a sudden the water in their tank started to get milky and smell really bad in 3 to 4 days after the tank was cleaned. We changed their older filter to a new one and it didn't help.

We basically were only feeding them pellets and dried shrimp. We recently started feeding them feeder fish, greens and fruits but the problem started before we changed their diet.

Also their skin looks like it's shedding. Does anyone know what is happening?

Here are pics of the tank:





Thanks.
Cris

[SpotsMama]

You're having water quality problems because of excessive bioload for the size of the tank. In plain English, the tank is too small for the amount of waste produced by turtles and fish and crumbs of food. Apparently some sort of tipping point has been reached as the turtles have grown and the filter can no longer keep up.

The cloudiness and smell are caused by bacteria living on the ammonia and nitrites in the tank. In the short term you'll need to change the tank water more often - every few days, as often as required to keep the water clear. You can also start feeding your turtles in a separate container, if you're not already doing that. One more thing you can do is remove most of the rocks from the bottom of the tank. The rocks trap waste and debris and make it harder to keep the tank clean. But these measures won't fix the problem, they will only help.

As soon as you can, you should get a much bigger tank. I'm not sure how many turtles are in there, but I can see two. If each is 2.5 inches long, then you have a total of 5 turtle inches which, at 10 gallons per turtle-inch, dictates a 50 gallon tank. Since the turtles still have a lot of growing to do, you should get a bigger tank than that...get the biggest one you can afford, otherwise they'll have outgrown it again in no time. In a bigger tank, waste is diluted in the larger amount of water and you can use a much more efficient filter, making maintenance of water quality easy.

In fact, consider getting two tanks - one for each turtle. If they continue living in one tank, they will probably get tired of each other and start fighting at some point in the future and then you'll be forced to separate them anyway.

With the bigger tank(s), think in terms of a canister filter (much more efficient and long lived, saves swimming space in the tank) and mercury vapor bulb (MVB for combined UVB and heat, more costly up front but lasts longer, provides better UVB and a nicer tank setup). Also, an above-tank-basking-area, which you would build yourself (not really that hard), allows you to put more water in the tank and is recommended.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth. You'll need to spend some money on the upgrade, but if you go ahead and provide a good setup, it will be ever so much nicer and easier going forward for both you and the turtles. If money is a big obstacle, let us know as there are ways to put together a good habitat that are very inexpensive.

While you're at it, read up on turtle nuitrition on this site. There's a whole section with good info. I can see several things about their diet that need changing.

Good luck!

[Crisg]

SpotsMama, thank you very, very much.
Yes I have two turtles. This is what I was thinking it could be, they grew and the tank is small now. Even though their diet isn't the best, they never got sick and they are both very active.
Also they seem to get along really well. Ones even sits on top of the other whe they bask, even though there is enough space on the basking area.
But I will follow your advice and make the changes. I already bought a canister filter the other day that I should receive in the mail soon. So we will look for a bigger tank and feed them some place else.
I have another question, if you don't mind: the other day I read that they should also eat feeder fish. So two days ago I bought 4 feeder fisha nd put inthe tank. The next day they were gone. It was the first time that my babies had ever eaten real fish. Than the next day I bought 16 fish and as soon as I put them in the tank, they chased and ate them all. All of them! I was amazed. So, is that a normal behaviour? They seem to be hungry all the time.
Thank you!

[Caphits]

It seems to me, that all turtles are hungry all the time, (at least we think they are!:wink:) as long as they are healthy. They are also opportunity hunters, meaning, if a meal is available, they will take it. Even if they arent hungry.

[Crisg]

Caphits, thanks!
How do I know how much to feed them?
When there were too many pellets in the tank, they used to leave some and eat them later. But lately they have been eating alot. They even come to the edge of the tank when we get close haha
I was great to see them hunting the fish though. We were happy because we felt as if we were giving them more of a natural environment to them.

[Crisg]

They are big now:

[SpotsMama]

They are quite beautiful. So colorful.

Feeder fish are fine. I assume you mean rosie red minnows or guppies. Avoid goldfish because they are too fatty for turtles. Turtles get exercise chasing the minnows and they are a good source of protein.

The problem is in giving them too many. Protein in moderation is good for a turtle, but too much causes them to grow too fast and get all sorts of health problems over time. A few feeder fish a month is about all that a turtle should have. In your case, you might get half a dozen every month for your two turtles.

There's also a problem with letting them have too many pellets. Until your turtles get to be 4" long, they can have as many pellets in a day as would fit in their heads if their heads (not the necks - just the heads) were hollow. After they get to be 4" long, you'll need to cut back to a half a headfull a day.

In addition to the pellets and occasional feeder fish, they can have all the red and green leaf lettuce they will eat. When turtles are young, they aren't as interested in the veggies, but offer them anyway and as they grow they will eat more and more of the green stuff. In addition to the lettuce and pellets, a couple of times a week they can have other veggies - tomato, carrot shavings, blueberries, bell pepper, turnip greens, fresh basil, steamed sweet potato.

They should have cuttlebone in their tank at all times for calcium. Turtles need a lot of calcium.

Where food is concerned - the rule is all things in moderation. Everyone on here will tell you turtles will eat anything and everything they can get in their mouths. They will eat until they throw up, and then eat some more. But it's very bad for them to eat so much. They are reptiles and their metabolism is slower than a mammal's and their bodies don't need all the calories. So don't give in to their constant begging.

[Crisg]

Thank you. Thank God they never got sick or anything like that. We try to take very good care of them.

Yes, I fed them the guppies. Thanks for all the advice.

About the cuttlebone in their tank, I had one in there but they ate it all and I was not sure I could put another one in so soon. These turtles eat everything they see.

[theartbook35]

I had this problem sort of for a little while. I realize through trial and error that even though it is okay when turtles are hatch-lings to give them more protein, they generate a lot of fecal matter. Made tank cleanings a really awful job. Once they reached a little bigger than two inches, matured and developed a taste for veggies, I cut back on protein a lot.

Anyways, your turtles are absolutely beautiful, and they are very, very healthy looking. You've done actually a very nice job taking care of them.

One thing you could do is think of how much food will fit inside the turtle's whole head, and that is how much you give each turtle.

[Crisg]

Hi theartbook35, thank you!

Well throughout the year I have tried to feed them what I have read n the forum: carrots, zucini, greens, fruits, etc. but they never liked any of those.

I even tried canned shrimp and they didn't like it. Then I bought them different kinds of pellets and also dried krill and shrimp their favorite.

Only last week I tried to feed them different things. Then my husband gave them real shrimp and they liked it. So I went and got feeder fish for them. They have been slowly eating the green leaves. I am not feeding them that much pellets anymore so they can get used to eating more "healthy" food.
I see that the problem now is the size of the tank. I think this will be a problem for me because I am afraid I won’t know how to take good care of them. I love my turtles but I don’t want them to have a habitat problem so I might donate them to the zoo or something.

[SpotsMama]

Don't lose heart! Everybody on this forum has been through a learning curve where taking care of turtles is concerned. It just takes a little time. It's a completely learnable thing - but you can't do it just by instinct. Once you get the basic pieces put together - tank and filter, lighting, diet, basking - it's really easy to take care of a turtle. I muddled around for four years and made every mistake in the book - and then some - until I found this site and learned how to do things right for my turtle. In the process, he developed a pretty severe shell infection, not because I didn't care for him but because I didn't know what to do. Since then, I've correct his habitat and diet, and treated his shell infection, and now, at seven years old, he's a beautiful healthy RES with a long life in front of him. And he's surprisingly easy to care for. The key is getting a good setup, then you'll have it made.

Your advantage is that your two are currently healthy. And the chances of a zoo accepting the donation of a couple of RES is pretty remote. RES are very common and, in fact, there's an oversupply of them. Demand is low.

[Crisg]

Thank you
We have found 50 gallon fish tank I'm thinking of buying. But before we are going to look around for different types of tanks. Currently we have their basking lamp that also has their light that sits on top of their tank. This tank we saw has a wooden cover and I am not sure how their lighting and basking area would be set up. But like you said, I can learn.
I have also heard that the bigger their tank is, the bigger thay get. Do you know if that is true? By the way, how big is your 7 yo turtle?
Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

[SpotsMama]

It's not true about turtles growing to fit the size of the tank. As long as they are healthy, they will grow to their full size. My seven year old is a male and he's between 7" and 8" long, which is normal size for a male. A female gets bigger - heavier and longer. A full grown female will range between 9" and 11" long.

[Crisg]

Here is the tank we are going to look at:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/for/1086420860.html

We just need to figure out how we are going to get a heat lamp in there for the turtles. And when we look at the tank we'll see if we can get a good sized canister filter hidden away in one of the enclosed cabinet areas underneath.

I know forum people hate questions like this, but what is the best value canister filter for the turtles? We've done some research, but I want to see what you guys have to say?

Kevin (the turtles "father")

[SpotsMama]

That's beautiful and a great value.

I'd see if you could get the unit without the cover. Perhaps they would knock some off the price if you took it without the cover. My tank and stand came with glass covers, which I don't use - they're stored in the garage.

I use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB), which provides both heat and UVB. A good MVB provides better UVB and lasts longer than a compact fluorescent. My bulb is suspended over the tank from a stand. I've seen several setups where the bulb is suspended over the tank from the ceiling, or from a plant holder attached to the wall next to the stand. The tank you are looking at would be big enough that you could use an MVB (they generate too much heat to be used with tanks under 50 gallons). I recommend a T Rex 100 watt Active Heat bulb if you decide to go the MVB route.

To me, the best value in a canister filter is one of the Rena XP series. They do a good job of filtering, are long lived and are quite easy to maintain. An XP3 would be plenty big enough for your tank, and could even handle a bigger tank when you upgrade in a year or so. It used to be you could get one for under $100 but they went up on the prices about year ago. Maybe with the economy in the state it's in, you could find a bargain somewhere and get it again for less.

Usually you can get better prices for aquarium equipment by shopping on-line.

And people on this forum aren't a bit shy about talking about their preferences where equipment is concerned! There's a whole section on equipment as a matter of fact.