Other Turtle Discussion :: 10 Gallons for every Inch Rule

[WeirdMeta]

Does anyone know where this rule originated from? I'm just curious. I mean I understand that if a RES is 4 to 6 inches you wouldn't want to keep him in a 10 gallon tank. Even I wouldn't be able to stand being in such a small tank. Like for me I have one male RES who will reach 7-9 inches and a female RES that will reach from 8-12 inches. My male RES is 4 inches right now and my female RES is 4 1/2 inches. Their current habitat is a Turtle-specific 30 gallon tank. Now I know I probably should have them both in a 90 gallon tank but as you all know tanks/aquariums that big don't come too cheap I mean sometimes you can get a great deal on some but other times you may not be able to find a great deal on one. So basically we RES owners resort to either a bug storage container, a stock tank, or the cheapest aquarium we can afford at the time being until we can upgrade later on. I know that people who decide to take care of a RES should know the maintance in the caretaking and I did think about this when I got the two RES. Don't get me wrong but everyone on here seems to be great RES caretakers. I'm just saying that we provide these animals what we can and what we can afford and get. I happen to have found a great deal from this guy down where I live for a 75 gallon tank with stand for only $75 dollars which I plan on getting. I also plan on getting the Rena XP3 filter as well. Thats another thing... filters why are the crappy ones cheap and the good ones so expensive. Why not make an inexpensive filter for aquatic turtles. Also I think they should come out with like aquatic turtle type dog houses for when you want to let your RES or other aquatic turtle outside for some sun and fresh air. Oh well those are just some thoughts. Anyways I guess thats about all I've got to say for now. Later RES Caretakers .

[Muirner]

do a pricematch on the XP3 and buy it at petsmart, you'll save 80$

[WeirdMeta]

Ya I plan on doing that. For everyone that whats to do the price match with PetsMart on their website here is the exact page you need to print to do so. http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_ ... 4441777968 . You'll still have to pay if you go to the store and buy it but if you order it from their site shipping will be free as any items you buy that are over $50 are shipped free which will only make the Rena XP3 $104.99. But if you can't ordered it online you're still saving quite a bit by doing the price match on their site.

[admin note: link edited]

[steve]

Like many issues with turtle care, it is a guideline. I have seen other "forumlas", but the 10 gallons per inch is easy to remember and a bit more generous than the other ones.

The best supplies will always cost more money, but you can also be creative and look for alternatives. You don't need a glass aquarium, you can save with a stock tank. You can also make your own filter and basking areas... it's up to you on how you want to provide these for your RES.

[BullDog]

filters why are the crappy ones cheap on the good ones so expensive.

xD I think you answered your own question
I agree with you though. Often if you can't afford the extra space, but are providing everything else that's needed, things will be ok. But like everything, there are limits (you wouldn't, for example, keep a big dog in a 4x4 cement pen all the time) So I suppose it's all a matter of perspective...

[VelvetAlley]

I already got on someone's bad side for thinking the way you do. You go with what you got and you make plans for the future. I think alot of the guidelines are made in good conscious by personifying (not the right word but I can't think of it off the top of my head) human emotion onto a turtle; "what if I were the turtle".

If I were to do the same thing, in good conscious, I would say that the rubbermaid stock tubs are BAD. Why? How would you like a white, blue, black, or shower door clear horizon for your home? If all four corners of your world were solid plastic except for the clear view of a ceiling with a light gleaming down on you from the outside. Those are the thoughts I would have as a turtle, if the way I think as a human were the same as the way I would think as a turtle. I would argue the way we think is vastly diffrent than a turtle though there are certain things living creatures need to survive; shelter, food supply, water, hospitable envirnoment. Add on social/emotional interaction as an abstract nessesity of life.

I've stated it before:

The criteria for a perfect habitat in captivity would be:

- Open living space - large enough for the turtle to not realize it is in captivity.

- No struggle for food.

- Clean enviornment

- Correct climate with climate control

- No preditors (safe)

- Periodic social interactions.

Since the majority of us cannot supply all of these things, compromises are made. The easiest one is Open living space; what is large enough for my turtle to be happy?

I still live by the feeling that if a turtle isn't going to be cared for, and flushed down the toilet, it is better for a willing person to adopt the turtle and give it the best environment they can provide for the turtle to be happy.

That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

[steve]

I respectively disagree and have to say personification has nothing to do with it (10 gallons per inch is a previously recommended guideline, not one that I or anyone on this site has created).

You don't just "...go with what you got", because that could be an excuse to justify inappropriate care. This, what we try to attempt, is really a chosen responsibility. You need to have basic resources and make the necessary commitments to be a responsible turtle keeper. Compromises are made all the time and we offer as many ideas as we can, however there are some absolutely necessary requirements.

As for your criteria:
How large would a habitat have to be before a turtle realizes it is in captivity? If it was as large as one would expect, would it still be in captivity? 10 gallons per inch is reasonable.

"Struggle for food" - how would you define that? Most RES are opportunistic eaters, especially while in captive conditions.

"Clean environment" - it is absolutely critical for most captive animals. There is no logical compromise.

"Correct climate with climate control"... very important for reptiles and cold-blooded species. Every animal has a preferred and healthy range. Not really a compromise IMO.

"Predators and safety" - obvious, but I have known many instances of avoidable accidents or carelessness crippling and killing turtles.

"Periodic social interactions." that sounds a bit clinical, but younger people have a tendency to over handle. I think the turtle's personality would have a say in that criteria.


What's your opinion on veterinary care? If you've been on this site for any period of time, you will know that it infuriates many people when someone won't or can't get appropriate medical care for their turtle.

What about stress? Captivity is stressful for an animal or person. They may adapt to it for a certain degree, but offering a better habitat will greatly reduce it.

Overall, I think that a caring owner is the most important criteria. That is not always enough and compromises will need to be made eventually - it will be inevitable for most people. Most of the information on this site is from experienced hobbyists and may be difficult for the average person to fulfill. Again, we will all need to make some compromises and some will make sacrifices, but like I said earlier, this is a chosen responsibility. I do not expect people to know what to do when they get a turtle, but if they stumble upon this or any other care site, I do hope they will make any basic changes that will greatly enhance their turtle's quality of life. These are my personal opinions.

[marisa]

If you check on other sites, I think you'll also see the guideline for 10 gallons of tank per inch of shell length mentioned, especially for one turtle.

And, I have to disagree with you about the Rubbermaid stock tanks (or any brand stock tank), VelvetAlley. They make excellent alternatives to regular tanks. A turtle is swimming in a pond and comes to the edge. Does he see beyond the edge? No, he stops because he comes to a solid wall (since when are the sides of ponds see-through?). If large enough and with an adequate water level, a turtle can see beyond the edges of his world, at least while basking (my RES can).

A large living space can be gotten at a far more reasonable cost with a stock tank---I very recently bought a 150-gallon one for a fraction of what a regular tank that size would have cost me (I'm not criticizing tanks that are of adequate size for a turtle/turtles if you can afford them---it's a matter of personal preference, and to some extent money, of course). And a large living space is what I'm after, along with the other equipment a turtle needs to live contentedly.

Ideally, one should know what one is getting into before one acquires a turtle. Overwhelmingly, people do not. But once the responsibility for taking care of one is undertaken, a person shouldn't just "go with what they have." They should do the research and work to create the best possible habitat they can. If they can't/don't want to, the ideal solution is to find someone who can.

[VelvetAlley]

But once the responsibility for taking care of one is undertaken, a person shouldn't just "go with what they have." They should do the research and work to create the best possible habitat they can.

This is exactly what I said in my second sentence of my post, only with alot more words.

You go with what you got and you make plans for the future.

and how I closed it.

I still live by the feeling that if a turtle isn't going to be cared for, and flushed down the toilet, it is better for a willing person to adopt the turtle and give it the best environment they can provide for the turtle to be happy.

So we're in agreement.


When I first got my turtle we had a tiny 10 gallon Aquarium, and now he is in much bigger. When the 10 gallon aquarium was what I had, that was his home, until something better was aquired.

Rubbermaid's - I would argue that a turtle in a pond, upon swimming to the edge of it would come to an incline and either turn around, or crawl up the incline to the vegitation which is just beyond the waterline. Not many ponds have 90 degree edges that go straight up a cliff on every side. I am backing my arguement on keeping its habitat as authentic as possible.

And as far as compromises that are made, any intelligent person would recognize what conditions are needed for survival and what conditions are desired for survival.

Again if I have the desire to take care of a RES, and what I currently have provides what is NEEDED, I could with clear conscious adopt such a turtle with the foresight of providing the DESIRED living conditions in the future.

Rational - If turtles are treated as Dogs and Cats, there are many Dogs and Cats who never see past the bars at Animal Shelters or Breeding Farms. If the same is also true for turtles, as I've seen in the photographs of the China-Town like turtle shops; is it not better to at least be moved from one aquarium with 5 ot 6 others inside it, to an aquarium of near equal size with only one occupant? Not to mention the better care the turtle will recieve in a loving owners home.

[cam722]

And as far as compromises that are made, any intelligent person would recognize what conditions are needed for survival and what conditions are desired for survival.

That's making quite an assumption.. intelligence. Have you read all the posts on here and what people feel are conditions needed to "survive"? My signature use to have a line that said... As turtle keepers our goal is not just for our turtles to survive, but THRIVE!!

Rational - If turtles are treated as Dogs and Cats, there are many Dogs and Cats who never see past the bars at Animal Shelters or Breeding Farms. If the same is also true for turtles, as I've seen in the photographs of the China-Town like turtle shops; is it not better to at least be moved from one aquarium with 5 ot 6 others inside it, to an aquarium of near equal size with only one occupant? Not to mention the better care the turtle will recieve in a loving owners home.

Is it better to not have it in a shelter than in a home where it is abused, or tied out all the time with little to no attention? or in a turtle's case, in a bowl that barely has enough water for it to submerge and that water being so filthy that it can't even see out of it's "home"? We could go on and on about all this..

[marisa]

Not quite in agreement, VelvetAlley---I meant do the research and make immediate changes, not just plan for the future.


And as for the Rubbermaids, yes, my RES does turn around when he comes to the edge. Not all turtles are going to leave the safety of a pond. If he wants to walk up an incline, he climbs up his corkbark to bask.

[steve]

And as far as compromises that are made, any intelligent person would recognize what conditions are needed for survival and what conditions are desired for survival.

How do you make that assessment without "personifying"?

[industrial_girl_2000]

Very interesting thread with many interesting points being made.

I agree on one side, that sometimes we provide what we can. On the other side, there is a lot of room for abuse on that point & some people just can't draw the line between what is acceptable & what is not. In my case, I found out what was not acceptable many years ago the hard way, with my first 2 turtles both dying of RI. It was very sad because I had grown very attached to both. There was no information back then, very few books, and no knowledgable vets to go to. Prevention was the key. And if you didn't prevent the problem, your turtle would die, period. It always bothered me that these were living creatures that were sold in pet stores with very little chance of survival.

Sheba has been with me for 17 yrs, but that was not always a perfect arrangement. There was a time when she was 7 inches long, in a 55 gal tank with another 3.5 inch turtle. They had gravel in the bottom for about a year before I took it out because it made the water dirty. She laid eggs in the tank & out of the tank for several years. She & Nelson (the other turt) fought like cats & dogs, resulting in Nelson getting broken nails from her snapping at him & even a sprained arm because she latched onto his arm in a fight. I rotated them in/out of the tank (let them walk around the living room) for 2 yrs so they wouldn't see each other in the tank before I finally gave up & gave Nelson away to a friend. I did not use water conditioner in the water after I changed the water. Sometimes I even let Sheba swim in a chlorinated pool for 20 min. in the late afternoon, after a lot of the chlorine had dissipated on a hot summer day, just so she could experience something bigger outside of her 55 gal tank. I fed her tetra reptomin foodsticks for 16 yrs of her life, adding a few earthworms, some cat food, giving her an occasional piece of sushi or a goldfish for variety. She sat under a plant light for many years because they just didn't have specialty reptile lamps back then. Yes, all these things went on because I simply did not know any better.

HOWEVER, after finding this website & finding out that she had a too-small tank (55 gal) for her 11 inch shell, I continued to let her out of the tank often to walk around the living room, letting her sleep in her tank only at night as I made plans to upgrade her tank. I continued to feed her outside the tank in a separate dish so her water would stay cleaner & used waste degrader regularly. Veggies became part of her menu. The water was completely changed at least once every 4 months, just as I always had done. Eventually I was able to get that new 90 gal setup I have for her now, but it was a choice to act on this new-found knowledge. As a result, she is happier now than I have ever seen her, constantly begging for attention, no longer begging to get out of the tank. I consider it my duty, now that I know this good information, to give her the best quality of life I can.

[Boogerbutt02]

Yes you do what you can, but sometimes that is not enough.... I realized, before even finding this site, that a 20 gallon tank was not enough room for a turtle that was 5 to 6 inches.... and I fixed the problem... I am a big fan of the stock tank and have used one for several years... my female turtle is in one now... I don't have a UVA light for her because I take her outside for real sunlight atleast 3 times a week... She is in perfect health and loves her tank... Your right she cann't see out the side of her metal tank, but turtles are shy by nature and don't really like it when you can see them (they run and hide when you do)

My male is in a 20 gallon turtle tank, and he is almost 5 inches... Yes I know this is way to small for him... I am not neglecting his care and I am being responsible for him... I know he needs a big tank, but until spring he is staying where he is... then it is into a 100 gallon stock tank... And my female gets moved outside into a man made pond that I am going to put in... this is what I have to do for now... I know it is not ideal but it works for me and my turtles...

My question to you all is: How can you really tell a Red Ear Slider is happy, sad, or other wise? these are human emotions not turtles.... yes we can tell when they are not themselves and acting different, but does this mean that they are unhappy in there tanks? How can we be sure that they have what they need, want, or desire?

Just some food for thought.

[cam722]

Although we as pet owners try to attribute human emotions to our "pets".. they just don't feel them. We can however tell if they are in an adequate environment. I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that a turtle who in nature lives in a pond or lake will not be "happy" in a small tank. Can they survive in that sort of environment, yes, but will they thrive and grow and be healthy.. more times than not, the answer is no.

We've all seen cases of turtles kept in deplorable conditions and still are living, but is that what we want for our pets? I hardly think so.