Other Turtle Discussion :: Is it TURTLE LOVIN' or something to worry about?

[MikeReda]

Ok...I've read all about how to tell a male from a female, but I need advice about my two RES. I thought they were both males, but now I'm not sure. They are about 4 and 4.5" now, so I should be able to tell, but their tails look the same to me, and they both have long-ish front claws. HOWEVER, since they have been in the new tank, they do this little thing where they get nose-to-nose and put their front claws up near their faces and flutter them at each other. Could this be courting? I just now noticed that after doing this, the smaller turt has a big black thing sticking out of its cloaca (sp?). I thought it was trying to poop at first, but this was not poop at all. It stuck out pretty far, and got wider as it came out. Then he retracted it. I'm guessing that this is his penis, but who knows. If so, I have a pretty well endowed turt...it was almost as long as his tail! Can somebody please clue me in? If my guess is wrong, then my turt is really, really constipated, or very sick. On the other turtle (the bigger one) I've never seen the same organ coming out...but it does open its cloaca...it stays open and round. Again, I thought it was trying to poop, but no...it never does. I'm guessing this means it might be a female. Both turtles are about 2 years old. Please let me know if this is Turtle Lovin', or something to worry about. Thanks!

[missibsu]

The smaller one was showing you his penis, otherwise known as fanning. Just because you haven't seen the larger one doing this doesn't mean it is a female. If both have long claws and thick long tails, then I would be inclined to say males on both accounts. Do you have a pic you can post of their tails and claws?

[sonyj]

Just a side note here, the fluttering of the claws is the sign of courting but it is also used for other things such as aggression and territorial issues. If you do have two males, they may not get along together as they grow and have a tendency to show aggression towards each other more so than two females or one of each living in the same tank together would.

[MikeReda]

Thanks for the quick replies. I definitely have one male. The bigger one is the one I'm not certain about, but I'm pretty sure he's a male, too. Below are two pictures: In the first you can see his claws (the one on the left), and in the second you can see his tail. I don't have any pics of the little one showing his junk--I don't want to traffic in turtle porn




So are they both males? If so, then they are definitely showing a bit of aggression towards eachother, even though they've never been apart. I've never seen them bite at eachother, but the fluttering of the front claws happens pretty often. Strange how I never saw this in the 10 gallon tank, but since they've been in a 90 gallon for over a month, they start to get territorial. Hmmmmm.

[marisa]

In the second pic, the turtle on the right (with the tail shot) looks like a female to me. The smaller one that was fanning is on the left?

[MikeReda]

Thanks, Marisa! You are correct, the smaller one that was fanning is the one on the left. Also, after looking again, I think you are right about the big one being female. First, she has not fanned at all, and the smaller one has. Also, I can now see the difference in their tails, although the difference is subtle. The small guy's tail is thicker at the base and the cloaca is further away from the body. I think that what makes it thicker at the base is that he retracts his male parts and they stay in the base of the tail when he's not fanning them (or it). The bigger one (the female) has about the same length of tail, but it is not as wide at the base. The cloaca is also slightly closer to her body than the other turtle's. So my next question is, what do I do, and how do I tell, if she lays eggs...because if we are right about the sexes, it's only a matter of time! Thanks again for all the great help and advice. I love this site.

[samandnelly]

You should be able to tell, and you need to make a nest for her. You might be raising some turtle babehs if you keep them in the same tank.

[marisa]

You may have a while to wait before any eggs are laid. A female that's gravid will often swim frantically against the tank as if trying to escape and will be making digging motions with her hind legs. For a reference in making a nesting area, look at http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Nestsites.htm

[MikeReda]

I actually don't want any eggs or baby turtles...but I don't want to seperate the two either. What can I do?

[marisa]

If you keep them separate, you won't have the hatchling issue. You most likely will have to deal with eggs at some point even if they are kept separate, however, because adult females will lay eggs whether or not they've mated. The eggs just aren't fertile.

Your choice as to separate or not. Since eggs (fertile or not) are likely in your future, I'd read and keep that link for future reference. An adult female that's gravid will need a nesting area. You can always discard the eggs if they've mated and you don't want hatchlings. That's what you'd be doing if you keep the female separate and she laid eggs.

[MikeReda]

OK...thanks again, Marisa...I read the info on nesting areas. I will definitely need to provide one. However, I now have even more questions that I hope you can answer. First, at what age will a female RES begin laying eggs? Second, how often will she lay eggs? Third, since it looks like I have to build an in-tank nesting area, do I have to keep it up constantly, or only during the periods that she is gravid? I haven't noticed any changes in behavior (i.e. swimming frantically as if trying to escape the tank), and I'm still not 100% sure she IS a female (although your judgement from the photo has definitely swayed me toward that assumption), so I guess I should just wait and see? I realize I'm asking a lot, but caring for these turts is proving to be a lot more complicated that I would have ever imagined. Thanks again for your time and your help with all these questions.

[steve]

My Female RES was 3 years old before she laid her first clutch and she was about 6" long. 3 years is a bit soon, though she is a bit large for her age. She has laid 2 clutches so far this year. I don't think you should make a nesting area above your tank, though you can try to have one next to it. Males normally flutter their paws for mating reason, though both will do it as a territorial behavior. If both of them are doing it to each other, most likely they are males.

[Ferd]

my friend had a female that was gravid. What he did was took a kiddie pool, filled it up with wood chips, sand and covered it with grass clippings. Within a few days the female laid all her eggs in one shot!

[MikeReda]

Well, I'm really hoping that Steve is right...that both of my turts are males. I would prefer not to have to deal with egg-laying at all. And the turt who's sex is is question is fluttering its paws more than the confirmed male turt lately. I still haven't seen it fanning at all, but it's been swimming with its cloaca open like it is trying to show its stuff. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all the advice.

[marisa]

But from the angle of the pic, that tail of the one on the right looks like a lady's... (and just keep in mind that females will flutter as well)