Other Turtle Discussion :: Y am I having bubbles on top of my water.

[VeipaCray]

VeipaCray: I've been doing the stuff you are mentioning for about 3 years now. Ty and Cane's water is almost identical to river water, which is what they would live in, in the wild. Like I said, I don't need a conditioner for my turtles.

Very cool...but which river? They aren't all identical. Which measurements did you take to determine that your water almost identical?

However, chlorine is not the only yucky thing you can find in tap water. There can be other things, such as led. Last time I checked, led doesn't evaporate. Certain turtle species are more sensitive than others, and, because of that, water conditioners should not be totally disregarded.

This makes no sense. First off, it's "lead" not "led" unless you are talking about a rock band and a zeppelin. Water conditioner does NOTHING to remove lead. How do you remove lead from water? Reverse Osmosis or distillation. NOT water conditioner. The point I was making is that proper water filtration eliminates the need for dumping possible toxic chemicals IE water conditioner into your tank. Since certain turtles are more sensitive to certain water conditions, the proper way to achieve those conditions is through adequate filtration and not by dumping a chemical into the tank. Dumping a chemical into the tank is a point in time thing. Proper filtration ensures an ongoing set of ideal water conditions.

Now, I'm not exactly poor, however, I make about 400 to 500 dollars bi-weekly at my job. 400 of that goes toward my rent. The rest goes for bus money and food. I don't have $220 lying around to buy an expensive filter. Maybe $220 is easy for you to come up with, but it isn't for me. And I certainly wouldn't ask anyone to contribute cash to my turtles!

I could care less how much you make or where your money goes. Your finances are your own private matter. $220 for a fully loaded FX5 with all the media is very cheap for a filter of that size. You cannot find another commercially available filter rated for 400 gallons (133-150 "turtle gallons") at that price. I suggested it as an alternative because you mentioned "large eheim". The large eheim model that competes with the FX5 is about 2x the price of the FX5. Sorry to say, keeping turtles costs money. Expensive to some, inexpensive to others... it's a relative thing. However if you cannot afford to properly care for a turtle or any other animal for that matter, you shouldn't have them.

This seems to happen a lot on this forum where ya'll get way to into whatever point it is you are trying to make. Come back down to Earth, and understand that not everyone is like you.

Care to explain to me how suggesting proper filtration over dumping potentially toxic chemicals into your pet's drinking water somehow equates to me leaving earth? Actually I think you're the one who needs to "come back to earth" if you think water conditioner removes lead. Suggesting the use of water conditioner as a substitute for proper filtration or is better for turtles more sensitive to water conditions is quite frankly insane. If you have a turtle species that is more sensitive to water conditions, how does dumping a potentially toxic chemical in the water improve the water? You now have water+chemical.

[kriminologie]

I have no problems accepting cash for my turtles. In fact, I accept donations of any size towards any of my pets with no shame whatsoever. Next week I'll be accepting $150!

[Love of Animals]

I use API water conditioner to my turtle tank and fish tank. A couple of drops to remove the chloramines. I worry about what the chloramines will do to my established bio media. I've seen what not adding water conditioner can do to fish. My turtle and my fish are healthy and happy. Everybody has their has their own way of maintaining their tanks that work for them. It doesn't mean one way is right or wrong as long as the animal is healthy. And VeipraCray to say that if you can't afford an animal you shouldn't have it is just plain wrong. I didn't buy my turtle he showed up in my driveway. Rescues are full and not accepting RES. Anybody I've talked to doesn't have a clue as to how to take care of a turtle, and when they're told what a turtle needs they scoff and say it's just a turtle. So what are people supposed to do release them where they don't belong or kill them? I think that everybody should be aware of what the proper husbandry is and do the best they can. For instance with me I'm going through severe financial problems right now. Not of my choosing. I didn't choose to lose my business in this economy. My turtle is in a 55 gallon with ans xp3 and is 4.5 inches. What am I supposed to do when the turtle reaches 7 - 8 inches and I can still barely afford to feed my children? Kill it, because nobody wants it? I think I will do what's best for me and my turtle. At that point more frequent water changes and filter cleanings. I think we need to stop scaring people with enclosure size and start educating more on what the proper husbandry is and let them do the best that they can. Sorry for the rant but life is tough out there for people and turtles.

[VeipaCray]

Love of Animals > Your XP3 will probably do just fine in a 75 gallon tank. You may have to clean it more often, but a 7-8" turtle in a 75 gallon tank with an XP3 should be just fine.

It's really not hard to setup your filters properly. Water conditioner is not ever necessary with proper filtration and filtration media. The ONLY time you might have enough chloramine in your tank to harm your bio filter is during your initial tank fill where you have 100% tap water. If your tank is brand new you probably don't have much of a bio filter anyway. Any water you add for a water change will have some chloramine, but not enough to harm your bio colony to any measurable extent. We're only talking about 10-20% regular water changes.

Yes sorry, if you can't afford to care for a pet properly, you shouldn't have them. It's not fair to the pet... that goes for turtles or any other species of animal. Love of Animals > I wouldn't lump yourself into that statement. You seem to have more than adequate conditions for your turtle. There's just too many people that show up on this forum with like 3-4 hatchlings in a half full 10 gallon tank, no filter, no heater, no lighting and they wonder why their turtles are floating. Now we tell them if you can't afford a good filter, dump some water conditioner in. That'll get you by. That's just not right. There's plenty of knock off filters, craigslist, ebay etc to get a decent setup for not a lot of money.

As for excepting money for care of your pets... kudos to you. Why not? Shelters and rescues do it all the time.

There are many people who read this forum for information. There are many people who read this forum for information and never post. The proper thing to do is to promote good filtration. We shouldn't be advocating the use of chemicals in our pet's environment IF there's a non-chemical non-toxic alternative.

As for your API water conditioner or ANY other brand... have you seen this?

Here's the MSDS sheet for your beloved water conditioner.
http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/tap_water_conditioner_122309.pdf

Here's a few excerpts:
"Harmful to aquatic organisms. May cause long term adverse effects in the aquatic environment."
"Very toxic to aquatic life"

Sodium Thiosulfate is the main chemical in the water conditioner. Here's the MSDS sheet for that:
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927606
Here's a highlight...
"It is incompatible with iodine, acids, lead, mercury, and silver salts (e.g. silver nitrate), halogens."
It doesn't do anything to lead.

Go ahead, dump some more in your tank.

[RESAddict]

There is a water conditioner I got at Petco the other day, not for my turtle tanks but for my snake's drinking water. It has no scent to it, so, it definitely isn't a "chemical". I forget the name but it's got a blue coloration to it, and when uses in larger amounts it can help build up some sort of slimy film that frogs need in their water dishes. I'm not very knowledgeable on frog care. But in any case, anything that doesn't have a weird smell to it, I consider safe. It doesn't turn the water blue, either, lol

When I go home tonight I'll look up the name of it.

O god.....

[VeipaCray]

Yeah I wish the companies had to staple the MSDS sheet to the packaging. No one would buy the stuff if they knew what was in it or how harmful it is. Although it might not matter because the masses would probably not read it and just buy the chemicals anyway.

Carbon Monoxide is odorless.

[Love of Animals]

VeipaCray, thanks for the info on the water conditioner. My tank is established has been going since January. I do 20% water changes with a vacuum once a week and a filter cleaning once every 4 - 6 weeks. I clean the sponges and bio media in tank water. I agree with you about the people that show up on the forum with horrible conditions for their turtles and didn't do the proper research first but, there are many people that have been thrown into turtle keeping like myself and I think gentle guidance is the way to go. And if they can't change their situation, what are they supposed to do with their turtles. There's really no where to go. That's why people dump all types of animals they can't keep. I used to rescue dogs before my situation changed. So I know the amount of animals purposely released. It's horrible. Rescue orgs don't want the sliders nor do many shelters. An ad on craiglist will likely get you somebody that knows even less about turtles or someone who just wants your equipment and not the turtle. What is the answer for people in this situation?

[VeipaCray]

There's never a perfect answer. You make do as best you can. Coming here to seek advice and do research is always a good thing.

Since you live in the US, there are US grants available for the care of rescue animals and for shelters. You do have to write in and ask for a grant, and there's no guarantee you'll get it but it's an option.

While craigslist may not get you someone who will take care of your turtle, it can certainly provide you a place to shop for used equipment. There's also a for free section. I know I've given away a good deal of gear/stuff on this forum and through craigslist. Cork bark, tanks, lights, canister filters, heaters, my old ATBA, etc.

You probably don't need to change so much water. Unless your filter is rubbish (your XP3 is great) you should be able to do a 10% change every other week to once a month. Is there a reason you're changing 20% weekly?

Gentle advice doesn't really work for the masses. Generally speaking, abrupt hard statements is what gets peoples attention.
If we collectively say "Don't use water conditioner, it's harmful". Most people can digest and accept that. If I post a long winded column on the potential negative effects of certain chemicals and such, most people will read the first sentence or two and then tune out and move on.

The problem I have with RES is that they cost $10-$20 in most pet stores. I wish the RES cost $1000 and came with a 150 gallon tank, stand, huge canister filter, basking area, lights, some food, and a care and tips sheet that matched the general sentiment of this site.

I applaud anyone like yourself that takes on a turtle as a rescue or gives a turtle a good home. If you're looking to give away your turtle, perhaps this forum or a similar turtle forum might find you a better home than craigslist.

[Love of Animals]

Nope not looking to find a home. He gives me peace which is what I need in my life now. As for the 20% it just seemed like a good number since I have one goldfish in with him and he didn't eat it so it's the size of him now. I know goldfish are messy but we've grown fond of him too. Until Rocky eats him. I wish they would charge more for RES too. Or at least give proper advise when someone buys them.