Other Turtle Discussion :: Selling tiny turtles....long, sorry....

[industrial_girl_2000]

[quote="marisa"]Size doesn't make a difference when it comes to carrying salmonella---it's estimated up to 90% of reptiles carry it, whether they're large or small. Washing your hands well after handling a turtle and/or the turtle's things is always good practice no matter what the size.

I don't think the selling of undersize RES is necessarily becoming an increasingly huge problem---it's always been a problem; people are just becoming more aware of it.
quote]

Well put, Marisa!

I will add also that there is no way of getting rid of the salmonella in turtles, no matter what anyone may say. The young hatchlings carry it the most, and the salmonella can diminish a bit in the older adults, but ALL turtles carry it to some extent. It's normal for them.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Linda,

I wanted to commend you on mentioning the 4" law to the flea market folks & trying to get the FDA & animal control people involved as well. I also consider it my duty to let other unaware people know that turtles are NOT a "beginner" pet. They require a lot of care....more care & $$$ than most people are willing to sink into something that small.

Kristin

[Ozzyy]

the same thing happened when i bought paco... 5 dollars.. and desperatley wanted to buy more out of that china town place... and rescue the rest of his brotheres... but im ina way glad i didint. paco is bareley an inch and a half long, and in the past month ive spent about... eh... 200 dollars on him. not tho mention the cost of gravel, a new filet,, a dock (MAN THOSE THINGS ARE ESPENSIVE), and other various unnamed objects. i would have bought more turtles, but that would mean double the space, plus a quarentine time, which means another stump. (more moolah) and furthermore. buying the turtles would have given them more money to buy more turtles to seell in those china town shops and flea markets.

[marisa]

Well, it's either running to the sink to wash my hands as I go from tank to tank or using a hand sanitizer, and I vote for the latter. As I said, I have the ones that can be purchased in petstores (from Zoo-Med) next to their tanks, and have never had any problem with them. I have Purell, but have used it only rarely around the turtles (not intentionally, but just because the other sanitizers are closer to them). In Petco, I've noticed that it's Purell (in dispensers) that staff have access to, as it is in the hospitals I go in and out of. I find Germ-X to be more drying than Purell, btw. Now that's it's winter and skin tends to get really dry (and I recently had a bacterial infection in a thumb), I find myself using gloves as well (they're the kind medical people use, so they're light and thin and easy to have on).

It's been shown that antibacterial soap is really no better than using regular soap for washing. Overuse of antibacterial products (so many products have triclosan in them) creates resisant bacteria and ultimately the "superbugs" that seem to be increasingly in the news. The length of the time spent washing is more important than what is used (I'd still feel better about using soap than just water, though).

People generally think of washing their hands as being the way to prevent salmonella, but equally important (I think) is keeping a turtle healthy, through providing a good habitat and diet. A turtle may be a carrier of salmonella, but it's through illness and stress that the bacteria is released from the intestine into the tank. But, since you really can't be sure, washing well just makes sense. The quote about washing and handling reptiles could also apply to people---ever see signs a restaurant restroom telling staff to wash their hands well before returning to work?

Steve, to me the answer to your question is both, although on-line selling, if it's increasing as much as you're implying, is probably adding to the situation. BTW, I do think there are some knowledgable, reptutable breeders who do sell on-line. It's interesting to me that established flea markets I've been to in the area around me (so far) prohibit the selling of any kind of animal.

I wonder how accurate data since 1975 (when the law was enacted) would be...

[turtleboy14]

Good post, thanks for the info. I read the 4 inch law on the current FDA page, so I guess it's up to date. The flea market I bought our two turtles from is an extremely well established one in our area, and because we're in a high tourism area it is also well known to people in many other states. It really surprised me that they are selling turtles and using the 'educational purposes' exception to the law.....I mean really, how dumb do they think we are to believe that??? They're being sold as pets there, and in the local pet store. Makes me very angry and sad for these little guys......

[daredevilgirl013]

I bought my little turtle (not so little now) at a stand in the middle of the mall. This guy had this huge tank filled to the brim with turtles. I was doing the impulse buy thingy to and was like oh grandpa I want a turtle. 20.00 bucks later..I have a turtle, with the plastic lagoon, and baby turtle food. And I was told the more I feed the turtle the quicker it will grow. I didn't even get to pick my turtle. The guy just plucked one out.

Now when I got her, she was only the size of a quarter..way under the 4 inch law. Well I didn't know this till later. But apparently someone else did. The mall shut down the stand and signs were posted up to bring back the turtles. It was also on the news that everyone that bought a turtle, needed to bring them back, and they would get their money back.

Now I'm not stupid. I wasn't going to bring my baby back to the people that shut the stand down because you can't tell me that they found places for those hundreds of turtles. (and I mean hundreds) So I kept my little girl and she's doing just fine now.

[Kallistos]

That's surprising, most large sellers get away with selling the turtles. I mean, there's countless websites that'll ship you a hatchling for $4 plus shipping. I noticed that XXXXXXXXXX.com says that the baby turtles they have are for "adoption." Most stores around my area treat their turtles "humanely" ,but they still are over-crowded a bit.

[scripta_elegans]

to add the the hand washing vs. hand sanitizer, I have been to several dermatologists for my hands which get red raw and chapped during the winter. They all said to use hand sanitizer, not soap and water. This seems anti-intuitive, but it does help. I would also recommend this hand soap. It uses no anti biotics so it does not increase pathenogen resistance, but it is safe and effective. I tested it with many others in microbiology lab, and it works better than some with problem antibiotics in them. It is also far more gentle and hypo allergenic. (No testing on animals is a plus too.)
http://www.kissmyface.com/Product/Kiss+My+Face/Moisture+Soaps/0800915EA/

[Kallistos]

We just had a class on this, we humans use antibiotics way too often and unecessarily. All those hand soaps say they're anti-bacterial, actually it's hard to find soaps that aren't anti-bacterial. LIke scripta said, the bacteria (pathogens when inside your body) are able to "evolve" and become unaffected by anti-biotics. A perfect example of this is Penicillin....

[marisa]

scripta_elegans, many thanks for reminding me of that product! I used it a long while back and will seek it out again. I've been buying liquid Soft Soap, which, I'm told used to be sold as regular liquid soap, but all I've been able find it in is the antibacterial version.